Evidence of meeting #5 for Subcommittee on International Human Rights in the 43rd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was china.
A recording is available from Parliament.
2:20 p.m.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
Thank you so much. You have been heard. Frankly, we very much admire you.
2:20 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Fonseca
Ms. McPherson, you have seven minutes for questions, excluding interpretation.
2:20 p.m.
NDP
Heather McPherson NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB
Thank you, Chair.
I would also like to take a moment to thank you both for being with us today and for sharing your very challenging stories. I know you are putting your own health, your own safety and the safety of your loved ones at risk by being here. I know we are asking you to relive memories and experiences that are indescribably painful. I want to make sure I echo the sentiments of my colleagues. As they have said, we will hear your testimony. This will make a difference. We will take your stories forward.
Similar to many of my colleagues, my first question for you is, as parliamentarians, what can we do? What would you like to see us do right now to help you and to help the Uighur people in China?
2:20 p.m.
Uyghur Rights Activist, As an Individual
[Witness spoke in Uighur, interpreted as follows:]
The first thing I would ask Canadians to do is to act according to international law and insist in your interlocution with China to shut down these concentration camps, or even maybe, as the first step, to secure a communication means with our relatives. We have not even means to call and ask, “Hi, mom”, “Hi, brother”, or “Hi, father; how are you?” We cannot even do that, a simple little thing. Afterwards, we will get our things; we will see things getting better and improving.
2:25 p.m.
Uyghur Rights Activist, As an Individual
[Witness spoke in Uighur, interpreted as follows:]
I would call for a boycott of Chinese products, a boycott of the importation of Chinese goods. Secondly, I would encourage letter writing and sending out emails calling for a shut down to immediately stop the genocide of Uighurs.
2:25 p.m.
NDP
Heather McPherson NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB
Thank you very much.
I am going to ask a few questions, in a bit more detail. I apologize for making you relive these painful memories.
Ms. Jelilova, I have a question for you? I know you mentioned you have four children. I'm also a mother. I wonder if you could talk about what happened to your children or where your children went while you were incarcerated.
2:25 p.m.
Uyghur Rights Activist, As an Individual
[Witness spoke in Uighur, interpreted as follows:]
When I was detained, I was 52 years old. Now I am 56. At the time of my detention my youngest child was 15 years old, and the eldest 35. While I was detained, my elder child took care of the younger ones. At the time I was very much worried about their well-being. In fact, I do worry about them because they remain in Kazakhstan.
2:25 p.m.
NDP
Heather McPherson NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB
Maybe just further, could you tell me, from your experience or from things you've seen, do either of you have an understanding of how children are dealt with if they are younger, if they are not in a situation where an elder child can look after the younger children?
2:25 p.m.
Uyghur Rights Activist, As an Individual
[Witness spoke in Uighur, interpreted as follows:]
It is an unknown issue. Even in my family, when my sister was taken away to prison and when my brother was taken away to prison, their children were to taken to the state-run, prison-like system, where they've been completely brainwashed. Even up to now we don't know what happened to them. Are they alive? Are they dead? Have their organs been harvested for sale? We have no means of communication by which we can know.
It's the same thing with parents who live, let's say, in Turkey. There are many Uighurs living in Turkey. They do not know what happened to their children because all communication has been cut off.
2:25 p.m.
Uyghur Rights Activist, As an Individual
[Witness spoke in Uighur, interpreted as follows:]
When I was detained in prison, I had been detained together with others: the youngest girl was aged 14 and the eldest detainee was 80 years old. They were all innocent. They committed no crime at all.
2:25 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Fonseca
Thank you, Ms. Jelilova, Mr. Ali.
We're going to go into a second round of questions. In consideration of where you are—you're in Turkey and in Holland—and the time there right now, I know it's late, it's later in the evening, we are going to ask each party to ask a question or two of the witnesses. That's how we will conclude.
We're going to start with Mr. Zuberi.
2:30 p.m.
Liberal
Sameer Zuberi Liberal Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC
First off, I want to thank you both for testifying. I wish you peace, strength and fortitude. Thank you for your courage. This is very meaningful.
2:30 p.m.
Uyghur Rights Activist, As an Individual
[Witness spoke in Uighur, interpreted as follows:]
Thank you.
2:30 p.m.
Liberal
Sameer Zuberi Liberal Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC
You're welcome.
You made an account of what happened to you personally. I wanted to know if what happened to you was the norm of what you saw within the camps. I can anticipate your answer.
2:30 p.m.
Uyghur Rights Activist, As an Individual
[Witness spoke in Uighur, interpreted as follows:]
I would emphasize, first and foremost, that there is no such thing as school, in principle. There is no such thing as schooling. These are concentration camps.
I am a citizen of Kazakhstan. I was detained and taken into prison for eight months without any legal procedure.
We are talking about millions and millions of Uighurs who have been taken away from their households and distributed and put into deserts, into areas of production—millions and millions. This is a reality on the ground.
2:30 p.m.
Liberal
Sameer Zuberi Liberal Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC
This is happening to everybody, essentially, who is in the camps.
2:30 p.m.
Uyghur Rights Activist, As an Individual
[Witness spoke in Uighur, interpreted as follows:]
This is very common. It's a standard thing. We are treated like toys. Anyone, anytime, can be taken into prison for no reason at all. Imagine, we're talking about millions of people who have been taken away for no reason.
2:30 p.m.
Liberal
Sameer Zuberi Liberal Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC
For my second question, I'd like to follow up on another point.
For the Uighur people within Turkey, are there any protections that the Turkish government is providing, or do you feel that the government is not in a position to protect you from threats and other forms of harassment that can be happening within the country?
2:30 p.m.
Uyghur Rights Activist, As an Individual
[Witness spoke in Uighur, interpreted as follows:]
The reason is the information blackout in Turkey. For instance, I wasn't able to get residency even though I was accorded a lot of media interviews. My own children are not able to go to school. There are no schooling possibilities available for my children. In my opinion, this is happening because of Turkish commercial interests vis-à-vis China. Basically, we've been stranded there without any means to advance.
2:35 p.m.
Conservative
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
Thank you.
Let me respond to something Ms. Jelilova said about accountability. What is going to happen to those who are involved in these horrific crimes? This is an issue that we as a committee have to grapple with, trying to end impunity for those involved in these crimes and ensure accountability. One way we try to do it is through Magnitsky sanctions, saying to those who are involved in these abuses that they will not be able to move their money or themselves to another country; that they will face consequences if they ever try to leave.
I'll ask two questions together, and you can respond to both as you wish.
The first question is to ask for your take on appropriate accountability mechanisms.
My second question is about potential vulnerability in general within Kazakhstan and other countries in central Asia to Chinese state influence. What is the nature of the discussion about what's happening to Uighurs in central Asia? What can we do to strengthen the collective response and reduce the dependency of countries in and around China, a dependency that limits their ability to respond effectively to what's happening?
2:35 p.m.
Uyghur Rights Activist, As an Individual
[Witness spoke in Uighur, interpreted as follows:]
I will share with you my own personal opinion about this issue. Thank you for posing such an interesting and important question.
I would invoke the resolution adopted by the U.S. Congress on Uighur people. If Canada could only follow this, it would be a good direction.
Then unite, together with such democratic like-minded countries as Japan and the EU Parliament, and announce an embargo on China. Unless we take concrete steps to turn up the heat on the commercial interests of China, the death camps in East Turkestan will continue to be operational. These measures are very much about a united front of like-minded countries against ongoing Chinese influence.
With regard to central Asia, I would personally think that we cannot and should not expect much from these countries. These countries are completely corrupt. They are being taken hostage by current Chinese influence. I would rule out influencing central Asian states at all at this stage.
2:40 p.m.
Conservative
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
Is it possible to hear from the other witness?