International Trade Committee on Nov. 2nd, 2006

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

You can't do that on a point of order.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Mr. Julian, go ahead.

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

What I would like to do now, Mr. Chair, is speak to the motion itself and to each of the individual clauses, because I think it's important for this committee to fully consider the impact of this particular motion and what this means for committee business.

I've had a moment during the break, Mr. Chair, to go to the washroom and reflect a bit on all of the aspects of this particular amendment and what this does to the committee's ability to work. So let us look at the subamendments I am offering.

Essentially, Mr. Menzies is imposing an artificial deadline, or the end of clause-by-clause consideration.

It is one thing to say that all clauses that have no proposals for amendments be treated in one vote; it is completely another to say that this committee, whether it's done its due diligence or not, will actually have a deadline set, at the end of the day--and it's hard to tell when that is. Is that 11 o'clock or 5 o'clock or midnight? There's no idea. but the committee as a whole will just throw what's left of Bill C-24, regardless of how bad the drafting is and regardless of the issues we've seen....

We've certainly seen an extensive number of issues that have come up in the course of that one hearing we held with Mr. Pearson and Mr. Feldman. They raised a wide variety of issues that were extremely important, extremely relevant to the bill as a whole.

To say that this committee has to finish the clause-by-clause consideration, no matter how poorly the work is done, no matter how poor the actual result is, would be, I think, a serious mistake, a serious error. It would be irresponsible to do that. We're talking about companies that are on the ropes. We've seen the job loss over the last couple of weeks since this deal was imposed.

Now we have Bill C-24. We have the time to consider it. The government has already made payments--$263 million to Tembec, for example--

[Ted Menzies, Conservative, Macleod, AB]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chairman. A repetition--

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

No, I didn't mention Tembec before. I'm mentioning different payments at different times.

[Ted Menzies, Conservative, Macleod, AB]

On a point of order, Mr. Chair, I would ask you to rule on, number one, relevance, and, number two, needless repetition. I would like to call this vote.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

I will be watching for that, Mr. Menzies.

We'll let Mr. Julian go on for now. I'll certainly be watching for that.

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

So we have a wide variety of clauses that have an important impact on the softwood community and what we have is a motion that says you have to finish clause-by-clause consideration--

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

A point of order, Mr. Cardin.

[Serge Cardin, Bloc, Sherbrooke, QC]

Mr. Chairman, I would like to draw your attention to page 569 of Marleau and Montpetit. I would also like to know if everything that applies to the House automatically applies to the Committee.

With regards to time allocation motions, it says they cannot be subject to debate or amendment. Is this possible?

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Monsieur Cardin, I've been given the advice that this only does apply in the House. This is one of those rules that doesn't apply to committees. So Mr. Julian has the right to debate.

[Ted Menzies, Conservative, Macleod, AB]

I have a point of order. I moved this motion and I believe it would be appropriate that I actually be able to discuss this motion, so I--

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

I apologize, Mr. Menzies.

That is correct, Mr. Julian. Mr. Menzies moved the motion and he has the right to speak on it first.

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

Well, he can certainly have his opportunity, but I do have the floor, Mr. Chair.

[Ted Menzies, Conservative, Macleod, AB]

I believe the mover of the motion has the opportunity first, Mr. Chair.

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

You can't simultaneously change the recognition of speakers, Mr. Chair. Certainly, I'd be more than happy to hear Mr. Menzies' comments on the motion when I finish speaking. It would be a pleasure for me to hear, in detail, what he has to say.

Mr. Chair, the other element that's extremely important, I think, to note--one of many--is that what we have here is a direct contradiction to what was moved at the beginning of this particular--

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Mr. Menzies is on a point of order.

Mr. Julian, you're really not supposed to be speaking here, and you shouldn't have the mike. You shouldn't have the floor.

Mr. Menzies has made a point of order, and I'm discussing that point of order with the clerks to determine whether it's in order or not. He's made a point.

Mr. Julian, Mr. Menzies will speak to his motion. You had the floor, Mr. Julian, on a point of order, and you're not allowed to move an amendment or a motion on a point of order.

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

I actually raised a point of order, Mr. Chair. You dispensed with it and then you recognized me to speak on the motion, and that is when I offered my amendments. Yes, I was recognized twice. I appreciate that, but you did recognize and deal with my point of order. Then you recognized me on the substantive debate, so I do have the floor now.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

That's not the way I see it, Mr. Julian.

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

Could you please check the blues?

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

You can check that out, but Mr. Menzies is going to speak to the motion.

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

I have a point of order, of course.

I was speaking on the substance of the motion. You recognized me to do that. Now, if Mr. Menzies wants to add comments, that's certainly welcome, but that would be after I have finished speaking. So I would like to finish my presentation of the subamendments that were recognized by you.

If Mr. Menzies didn't choose to speak after he moved his motion, that's fine, that's his choice. If he wants to speak--

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

You've made your point, Mr. Julian. I'm now going to Mr. Menzies to speak on his motion, and we'll take it from there.

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

Mr. Chair, you can't arbitrarily decide that you're going to cut somebody else's speaking time.

[Ted Menzies, Conservative, Macleod, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I do appreciate how difficult this has become for you.