International Trade Committee on Oct. 16th, 2012

[Ray Price]

I can broadly. I don't have the details of it, but we can supply some better information on it, but the bison business has been growing in Canada. There's been a greater degree of leaner meat, which the bison tends to be, and it's a different meat from the rest of what they would normally consume. It's a growing thing.

Japan, with 130 million people, quite a lot of whom are affluent, is ready to try different products. Bison was one they were just starting to try before the border was closed. It's not going to be a market in the billions of dollars, but it could be in the tens of millions. From that perspective, it could be one of those things that is a nice market for a group of producers and processors to attack. Our small plant isn't very big in terms of what it does. It's a niche market, absolutely.

[Ed Holder, Conservative, London West, ON]

Fair enough.

It's interesting because one of our colleagues opposite referenced E. coli and BSE. I know those issues have to go on the table, but I sure hope that it doesn't get blown out of proportion as it relates to Japan. What struck me were your comments about our inspection system, that our meat inspection system is at a higher standard than the Japanese one. I think you called it the floor model, or the basis of comparison. I find that those other comments, particularly in this context, aren't very helpful.

When Canada had a BSE problem, we declared it. We do not hide those kinds of issues. I'm told there are other countries where they just say to get a backhoe and fix the problem. Frankly, that's not Canada's way. If there's anything that this E. coli outbreak has shown, it's that when there's an issue, Canada will stand up and deal with it. I give credit to our inspection system and the declarations that need to be done. It ultimately gets done the right way. We don't believe in backhoes to bury our problems. Good on Canada for taking that approach.

Could you help me understand something? Mr. Price, you talked about the 20 months versus the 30 months limitation. Did I hear you say that Canada's not unique in that? In other words, do all countries go through that in dealing with Japan right now?

[Ray Price]

The countries that are minimal risk do: the United States, Canada, and Europe.

[Ed Holder, Conservative, London West, ON]

Has that changed with the free trade deal that you've indicated has been in place with Chile and Mexico?

[Ray Price]

Chile and Mexico were the ones for Korea, right?

[Ed Holder, Conservative, London West, ON]

I apologize. I thought Chile and Mexico were—

[Ray Price]

Mexico has an EPA with Japan, but they aren't restricted under the BSE, because they've never had a case of BSE.

[Ed Holder, Conservative, London West, ON]

I see what you're saying.

[Ray Price]

Just the areas that have had BSE or minimal risk—

[Ed Holder, Conservative, London West, ON]

Are you aware of any timeframe? How many years have to go by, or do we need to elect a new Pope? When does it get to the point where you believe that the Japanese would say they understand, because of the due diligence of our inspection systems? I'd like to get both of your ideas about the flexibility on that.

[Ray Price]

We had a briefing this morning from the government to find out where we were with the 30 month versus the 20 month, and we all think that in three to six months it will be lifted. There has been a lot of work done in both the United States and Canada to try to make that happen, so we're hopeful that it'll happen soon.

[Ed Holder, Conservative, London West, ON]

Thank you.

Could I get Mr. Sutton's comment on that?

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Merrifield]

You can, very quickly.

[Barry Sutton]

I really can't add much to that, other than it's an issue where Japan has had BSE outbreaks of their own. They use it, I believe, to restrict trade. It's one of those things where you have to get in and negotiate very hard to remove.

[Ed Holder, Conservative, London West, ON]

Thank you both.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Merrifield]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Sandhu, five minutes.

[Jasbir Sandhu, NDP, Surrey North, BC]

Thank you, gentlemen, for being here.

I want to point out also that we've heard over and over how important the Japanese market is to the meat industry—the beef industry and the pork industry. I'm going to echo my colleague's words that, hopefully, our Conservative government won't be sleeping at the wheel, as they did with the Koreans when we were negotiating with them. We would encourage them to get on with it so our meat industry is not hurt by a free trade agreement.

Mr. Sutton, I want to go back to you. I listened and I've read a number of reports. Your response to the 2008 listeriosis crisis was very different from what we have seen in the XL Foods instance. We've heard many, many commentators say, especially after the XL E. coli crisis, that you guys handled the crisis very well. They're comparing both companies: the way Maple Leaf Foods handled it and the way XL Foods handled it. The Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food basically failed to take tainted beef off the shelves for two weeks after the U.S. had banned it, whereas your case was a little different.

Would you agree that having huge discrepancies in the way you handled the incident and how XL handled it, is damaging to the meat industry itself?

[Barry Sutton]

I really can't speak for XL Foods, but I can tell you that in our case, at my company we have very strong values around transparency and doing what's right. We made sure that we confronted the issue head on, that we didn't try to hide it. I met with Japanese customers personally. I had to be on the front line to explain that issue and what had happened. They very much understand the risks in the food industry and they felt very strongly that Canada would quickly get it under control. Again, they focused on the individual company. They visited us—

[Jasbir Sandhu, NDP, Surrey North, BC]

I only have a short time, so I'm going to ask you a question in a different way.

Does the XL Foods debacle affect your industry also? You're in part of that industry. That's going to affect the entire meat industry, is it not?

[Barry Sutton]

It could, but in a way that you may not expect. It will actually help the pork business. The Japanese are confident in the Canadian system.

[Jasbir Sandhu, NDP, Surrey North, BC]

It certainly will have an impact on the beef industry.

[Barry Sutton]

I think it will have an impact on beef sales for a while, yes.

[Jasbir Sandhu, NDP, Surrey North, BC]

We've seen two different outbreaks, listeriosis and the XL Foods E. coli. They're two different results, how they were handled, and we've had a different way of handling this particular situation.

Do you think the ministry and also the CFIA can play a role in standardizing the response we have to these outbreaks?

[Barry Sutton]

I don`t know if Ray has an opinion on this. It's incredibly difficult to do. Every issue around food safety is very different. The risk is that you get out initially with the wrong information and you head in the wrong direction. Part of the issue that individual companies, the government, and the CFIA face is getting the facts before they respond. It's very, very important.

[Jasbir Sandhu, NDP, Surrey North, BC]

The response that we've received from the minister, the Conservative government, and the CFIA I believe is really damaging our industry, because the meat was out on the shelves for a couple of weeks after the E. coli was identified. That is one of my concerns.

I agree we have a very good standard, but I don't think we should be simply staying at that standard. We also should be looking for an opportunity to continuously improve the quality of product we have. That's what the Japanese market expects. We saw from the BSE scare in 2003 that they put a ban on our exports to that country.

Would you agree that the CFIA or the ministry can play a better role in regulating these things?