International Trade Committee on Feb. 4th, 2014

[Ed Holder, Conservative, London West, ON]

He loves your blueberries and he was very supportive. You seem surprised.

But he talked at length about how important it is in the marketplace. I'm trying to understand, maybe just very bluntly, what does TPP mean to your industry? If you could put that in a few sentences, what could it do for you?

[Debbie Etsell]

My conclusion was the main point. This partnership will help keep a healthy Canadian blueberry industry as a trade partner in the future. I really believe that if we don't start having more of these agreements, that the size of our industry.... It's talked about in B.C. that all of these other countries are trying to grow blueberries, and we could grow them in the ditches, that's how native they are to our country here.

It's going to keep evolving because there are a lot of people that like to farm a healthy product and that is one of our qualities that people know about in Canada. With the amount of supply coming on, this is what's going to sustain us into the future.

[Ed Holder, Conservative, London West, ON]

That's an interesting marketing program. The blueberry capital of the world, we grow them in ditches. I'm not sure I comprehend that.

You did make reference to the 37% difference in tariffs when Chile is selling their blueberries to South Korea. Does that go away? I'm thinking of South Korea because we have a free trade deal with Chile, but help me understand that a little bit more.

[Debbie Etsell]

To give you some background, Chile came in and they were able to reduce theirs over five years to zero tariff. The U.S.A. came in after Chile. I would mention that Canada was number one to sit at the table with South Korea, and we're still waiting for our agreement. The negotiations came in and when the U.S. came in, they negotiated a faster reduction of tariffs. That's where we're at right now. We're hoping that Canada could emulate that and make us more competitive in a faster period of time.

[Ed Holder, Conservative, London West, ON]

You've all been very hospitable, thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Merrifield]

Thank you very much.

We're getting into the second round. I have one question. You mentioned that the blueberry is native to North America. Russia, northern Europe, do none of them grow blueberries?

[Debbie Etsell]

They do grow blueberries. I'm not sure that everybody knows that Canada has highbush and lowbush. On the east coast, it's lowbush; on the west coast, it's highbush. When I'm commenting about the products from the B.C. Blueberry Council side, it's highbush. The lowbush does grow in the northern parts, but the highbush is native to North America.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Merrifield]

Ms. Crowder.

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to the witnesses. I'd like to start with Ms. Driediger.

A couple of times you talked about the details and the devil in the details, and that at a high level your organization supports TPP. But I'm presuming that the things you laid out are the things you want considered. You actually don't have access to the details around things like phytosanitary organic products, direct marketing, country of origin.... Is this your wish list?

[Rhonda Driediger]

Yes.

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

You probably heard that some of the criticism of the TPP has been the lack of transparency and the lack of ability to actually.... So people are supportive of an agreement that they actually don't have the details on.

[Rhonda Driediger]

Yes.

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

There are a couple of things that I wanted to raise.

One of the things that you mentioned was a dispute resolution mechanism. I have two documents here. One's an open letter from lawyers, who have a particular ability to analyze these agreements. They say that in their view what they're seeing out of the TPP and other agreements will fundamentally shift the balance of power between investor states and other affected parties in a manner that will undermine fair resolution of legal disputes.

They go on to recommend that there should be an open and independent judicial system for the resolution of disputes. Although this is from the United States, the Institute for Agriculture and Trade Policy has raised serious concerns around dispute resolution mechanisms. They indicate in their view that if the TPP is implemented, it would:

...expand protections for investors over those for consumers and farmers, and severely restrict governments’ ability to use public policy to reshape food systems.

I come from Vancouver Island where the agriculture industry.... We talked about wine. But certainly we have a very vibrant active organic production, farm-gate sales, and a lot of mechanisms that local people think are really important.

What do you think needs to be included in the dispute resolution system in order to protect farmers?

[Rhonda Driediger]

Number one, before we enter into any type of sale to a country, I think each side has to know what is acceptable, what isn't acceptable, and how such a dispute will be handled. I don't think we're looking for prescriptive dispute resolution. We're looking for a process. A process that both sides agree to because you are going to be dealing company to company. You're not dealing government to government anymore once that transaction has happened.

So I think we're looking for a way that each country agrees to deal with the problem. We're not looking for prescriptive measures. I don't see that as having an impact. Hopefully the lawyers didn't charge too much for that. I don't see that happening.

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

It was free.

[Rhonda Driediger]

It was free. That's a rarity; you should have it framed.

I think we're just looking for the actual process, how it will be dealt with. We do have a Dispute Resolution Corporation here in Canada that deals with disputes between Canada and the U.S. when it comes to fresh produce. I could see it being modelled after that, which is really an arbitration, both sides sitting down and going through the discussion process, seeing which points are in dispute, and then working out a resolution. That's non-judicial.

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

Partly the concern has been raised because of the Canadian experience with NAFTA where some of the dispute resolution is conducted behind closed doors and it doesn't necessarily, hasn't necessarily, advantaged Canada. I think that's part of the reason.

I want to touch on country of origin labelling. Of course, the details on that aren't known either. Do you have specific recommendations around inclusion, around country of origin labelling?

[Rhonda Driediger]

The U.S. has been trying to implement country of origin labelling, or COOL as they call it. I think it's important to the consumer. As an importer-exporter I don't know if it's necessarily that important, but I think the consumer has a right to know where that product came from. But then again it's extremely difficult to do that. We look at cattle that may have been born in Hawaii. They're shipped over, raised on farms in B.C., sent to Alberta for finishing, and possibly slaughtered in the U.S. So what do you call them? Cows. That's a good answer.

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

I think that's the challenge, your point that the consumer has a right to know about the country of origin labelling, more broadly. My riding tends to be an activist riding, and we hear consistently from people about the importance of labelling.

I see my time is up, so thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Merrifield]

It's one of my favourite topics.

Go ahead, Mr. Cannan. The floor is yours.

[Ron Cannan, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thanks to our witnesses. It's great to see some of you again in your neck of the woods. I know, Rhonda, your presence graced our round table with Minister Pimm and Minister Ritz last fall. It was great to have you representing the BCAC. We know that you mentioned blueberries coming from the Okanagan, grapes, but cherries are obviously very.... Cherry growers are excited about the opportunity to hopefully have unfettered access into the Asian markets. Some are circumventing the system currently but they'd like to get there in a little straighter and quicker route, so we're excited about that.

You also commented on labelling. I wanted to talk about organic. Rhonda you mentioned reciprocal standards. Maybe you could expand a little on that and the issue of labelling and a topic that is often raised in my riding and around the province, the issue of GMOs.

[Rhonda Driediger]

Thanks. I'll temper my comments between my personal opinion and that of the BCAC board.

When it comes to labelling, the two industries that it's affecting the most right now are greenhouse vegetables and organic. Organic is concerned about labelling and also GMO. They're concerned about GMOs being allowed into Canada and therefore mixing, if your will, with their crops, making their crops unavailable for registration as organic. They see it as quite devastating if it's allowed in, say, with the GMO apple, the Arctic apple, I think it's called. They're concerned about having that come up into your region and having cross-pollination with domestic apples.

So I think organic is very specific. They document how things are grown, where they come from, where their plants come from. They're all non-GMO. Their concern is that there would be a muddying of the waters and they wouldn't be able to certify.

Ray is also an organic chicken producer, so he can answer that on behalf of chickens.

Labelling? Sorry, you had a third question, GMOs? GMOs may save the world one day. We don't know yet, but science will save it.

I'll pass it over to Ray.

[Ray Nickel]

Under the organic standards right now Canada does have some fairly good safeguards. They have to meet the CFIA standards on organics. So you're not going to get past the GMO issue with the organic council committee, that continues to be something extremely highlighted. So in trade negotiations that's going to continue to be a stumbling block.

[Ron Cannan, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

So it's not so much Canada, as we have great standards. You want to make sure the certifications are recognized internationally and enforced.

[Ray Nickel]

Yes, that tends to be the way that it goes. Canada has been developing their own standards. They take into consideration the EU and somewhat the American standard, but then those Canadian standards have to be met by products coming in. So the government needs to continue to enforce that sort of policy and maybe that does go back to the country of origin labelling as well. But when you talk about GMOs in conjunction with organics that's a non-starter.