International Trade Committee on April 2nd, 2019

[Fred Gorrell]

They have provided some information; some information, they have not provided.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Okay.

[Fred Gorrell]

They have been engaging, as I indicated to Mr. Dhaliwal as well. They have been polite, professional and cordial. At the same time, we haven't been able to have that conversation we need. We have some of the information that we've asked for and some we do not have.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Are any of you able to offer some responses on the advance payments program?

[Kathleen Donohue, Director General, Market Access Secretariat, International Affairs Branch, Department of Agriculture and Agri-Food]

In terms of...? As you know, we have the advance—

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

In terms of the demand that's already been exhibited, can you project ahead what the needs will be based on what the uptake has already been?

[Kathleen Donohue]

As you have heard from the minister and then this morning from the Canadian Canola Growers Association, which is the administrator for the APP when it comes to canola, there's been an uptake yesterday in the new calendar year. As the minister indicated, one of the tasks of the working group that will be meeting on Thursday will be to give us an indication and an information exchange on that demand from the grower community and the extent to which we need to look at perhaps making some changes to some programs such as APP.

[The Chair, Liberal, Mark Eyking]

Thank you. That wraps up the time.

We're going to go to Liberals. Mr. Fonseca, go ahead.

[Peter Fonseca, Liberal, Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON]

Has the Government of China indicated in their words what mistakes they feel have been made, or what mistakes need to be corrected? They talk about pests or whatever, but what are the mistakes? They said there are certain mistakes.

[Fred Gorrell]

Are you talking about the ministry of foreign affairs or are you talking about agriculture?

[Peter Fonseca, Liberal, Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON]

No, no, I'm talking about agriculture, and then what concrete measures they are looking for.

[Fred Gorrell]

Well, they haven't been specific. They've said, “You should review your system, look at the distribution, look at your cleaning”. Basically, they've said to look at our whole system. They've used words something like these: “It's not functioning, not doing what it should be doing; it's not giving us a level of assurance”. As we've said before, we're taking a very robust defence of our system, because our system isn't just for China; it's for around the world, and around the world we're very proud of our system.

I would also comment that this morning at the agriculture committee both Viterra and Richardson said that we have a state-of-the-art system in how it's used. Again, without specifics and when they make general statements, it's very hard to get into a dialogue with them, because you really want to ask them, what are they asking of us? We haven't had that chance yet.

[Peter Fonseca, Liberal, Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON]

Is this the first time we've experienced something like this? Have we faced something like this in the past?

[Fred Gorrell]

It's almost unfortunate that I've been involved with this issue for many years, but I would say that with China we had a separate issue in 2009. It's called blackleg and is a fungus that we've been working on. In 2016, we were working on that.

Over a period of 10 years, we've had a number of differences of opinion with the Chinese government relative to plant health interpretation. As I said, it's through sustained efforts that we've been able to come out the other side. Exports have continued and, quite frankly, have been growing at a healthy rate.

[Peter Fonseca, Liberal, Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON]

I know that government is seized with this. You've had some success in the past when this has come up. Is the strategy put together with Trade? Does everybody get into a room and work out a strategy on how to move forward in how to address the science and then also some of the other issues that may arise?

[Fred Gorrell]

We're fully integrated. I would say that Global Affairs, Agriculture Canada, the Canadian Food Inspection Agency, our Canadian trade commissioner service and other departments are all fully integrated. We work together in a whole-of-government approach.

[Peter Fonseca, Liberal, Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON]

According to Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada, in 2016, the Government of Canada and the Government of China concluded an agreement that allows Canada to export canola seed to China “under existing commercial terms” until March 2020. Does this agreement ensure that Canada's canola producers have unimpeded access to China's market?

[Fred Gorrell]

That is the agreement that was signed in 2016. What they have identified in the context of that agreement, they're saying, is that they're finding some other problems and they're bringing that to our attention. They have suspended the two companies based on that.

Again, we want to have the conversation and ask, “What is your concern?” We have a framework for what should be tested and how we should be testing it. They've said, “We found some new issues that we want to talk about”, and they have concerns. This is where we are today, sir.

[Peter Fonseca, Liberal, Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON]

Is the agreement binding and enforceable?

[Fred Gorrell]

No, it's not a treaty. It's binding between two organizations.

[The Chair, Liberal, Mark Eyking]

Thank you, Mr. Fonseca.

We're going to go into the second round. We're doing really well here.

Madam Ludwig, you have four minutes. Go ahead.

[Karen Ludwig, Liberal, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Thanks again, all of you, for your testimony today.

Mr. Verheul, in 2016 the government announced exploratory discussions between Canada and China for a free trade agreement. How might a situation or a case like this impact those discussions or how we might approach them moving forward?

[Steve Verheul]

Well, we're not currently actively having those discussions with China at the moment. Certainly, this kind of issue is something that you like to get out of the way before you get into any kind of broader negotiation. We would like to see this resolved as soon as possible so we can move on to expanding our trade relationship with China and expanding our trade across all commodities.

[Karen Ludwig, Liberal, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

I had a case in my riding where a particular company had exported a product. When the first container arrived—it had been tested—the accepting country looked at it and said there was an issue with it. There wasn't harmonization between the standards of testing, but they did have a country, a third country, that they would agree to do some of the testing. Is that option here in the case of China?

[Fred Gorrell]

I would say no. I would say that China has sovereignty on what they're testing on their own imports as well as our exports. I think the idea that was proposed of checking our export certification and import certification together and making sure of the methodology would be something that would be at least a possibility to ensure that we're looking at things the same way.