International Trade Committee on April 2nd, 2019

[Randy Hoback, Conservative, Prince Albert, SK]

Okay.

As we move forward and look at opportunities or alternatives, what timelines to you see for having this box checked? If there's a true desire by both parties to solve this, could we have this solved—at least this box checked—within the two or three weeks? What's a fair time frame to say, “Okay, we can have this cleared?”

The reason I ask—and this is why I was really pushing this committee to meet earlier—is that time is of the essence. Even though we have our own calendars here in Ottawa, the reality is that the farmer is sitting there and saying, “Do I put this bag of seed in the ground or do I return it?” These are big decisions that have to be made. They're big dollars. So what is your time frame? How quickly can you push this forward if you have a willing partner on the other side?

[The Chair, Liberal, Mark Eyking]

We have to have a quick answer.

[Fred Gorrell]

We're ready to get on a plane today or tomorrow. We have people ready. Obviously, it would be up to the Chinese to confirm when we can meet with them. That would be the first thing. After that, I couldn't speculate on how long it would be until we actually have that first conversation.

[Randy Hoback, Conservative, Prince Albert, SK]

You could move relatively quickly.

[Fred Gorrell]

We're very capable of moving very quickly.

[Randy Hoback, Conservative, Prince Albert, SK]

As you did under Minister Ritz....

[The Chair, Liberal, Mark Eyking]

Thank you, Mr. Hoback.

We're going over to Mr. Dhaliwal.

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Surrey—Newton, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the management as well.

Mr. Verheul, congratulations, and thank you for the great work you have done on USMCA. You were very successful, along with the minister. You handled a pretty difficult file, when it came to that agreement. Do you see us putting in the same amount of effort now to resolve this issue?

[Steve Verheul]

Yes, I would say so, because from the moment this issue came to our attention, there have been a significant number of resources from all of the involved departments to fly to this, from CFIA and Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada to Global Affairs, and others. This has been a top priority of our department since the issue first arose.

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Surrey—Newton, BC]

Ms. Mithani was saying earlier that there are different ways of testing—different processes when it comes to testing. Do we have full confidence in the scientific testing system in Canada being equivalent to the one in China?

[Fred Gorrell]

I would say that we have great confidence in our testing methodology and the science we use in Canada. It's based on international standards. It's validated. I can't speak directly to the Chinese methodology right now, because they've indicated that they've had problems. They've had quarantined pests. We said we'd like to validate that. We asked them for their methodology and what their testing and sampling plans were, etc. Without that information, I would not be in a position to answer your question. That's why we're saying, “Let's have a face-to-face meeting, so we can determine exactly what you're looking at and why.” We're going to say exactly what we're doing and why.

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Surrey—Newton, BC]

What are the timelines we're looking at for that meeting, and the regulation?

[Fred Gorrell]

We've asked for the meeting to take place as soon as possible. In fact, one of the chief plant health officials is in Rome today with the Chinese counterpart. They've had two conference calls already. He's asked them when we can have that conversation. We've responded that they have the information and the request from Minister Bibeau, as well as from President Mithani. They said they'll advise us as soon as possible. That's all we have, sir.

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Surrey—Newton, BC]

From your experience, do you see them as reluctant to meet with you, or co-operative, when it comes to the environment that you see around the talks?

[Fred Gorrell]

All of their language and the conversations we've had at the technical level have been cordial, polite and professional. There is no suggestion that there's anything else. They said they very much want to have a technical dialogue, but we really do need an answer to that question. As Mr. Verheul said, our trade commissioner is in Beijing. I have been talking to customs China, and impressing upon them the importance of having this meeting as soon as possible.

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Surrey—Newton, BC]

Do you believe that farmers should do anything else to mitigate the issue they're raising, or have they done everything they could have done? Have you as officials also explored every avenue you have?

[Fred Gorrell]

Canada exports canola to many countries around the world. We're the largest exporter of canola. Countries love our quality and the use of it. What we're doing, and what our farmers are doing in their growing practices.... They're responsible. They're looking at sustainable growth. All of it is very positive.

Right now, I think we really do want to have that conversation with the Chinese on specifics. Then, based on that, we'd be able to share information with this committee and others, as well as the farmers, to see if there is anything else we need to do. We're quite confident, though, in what we're doing. We export canola all around the world and people are very pleased with the product and its quality.

[The Chair, Liberal, Mark Eyking]

Thank you, Mr. Dhaliwal. Those were good questions. I think you could be a really good farmer.

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Surrey—Newton, BC]

I was a farmer before I came to Canada.

[The Chair, Liberal, Mark Eyking]

Oh, sorry for that mistake.

We're going to move over to the NDP.

You have four minutes, Mr. MacGregor.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

We heard today testimony today at the agriculture committee from both Viterra and Richardson. Richardson, in particular, made note of its very long trading history with China and the relationship it's cultivated over a hundred years. Both companies stressed the fact that with canola in particular, there is no one case of phytosanitary concerns with it at all. I know that you have the utmost confidence in our methodologies and the way we test for pests in our containers that are destined for export. I know that you attach certificates, so that the importing party can see that it was verified before it left our ports. During all this time, since we started trading canola with China back in 1994, they have not found a problem to date. There have been a few concerns in other years, but by and large it's been pretty good. Other countries have faith in our system and they haven't found any problems.

Going to the fact that you have a team that's ready, willing and able to go at a moment's notice, I understand we're waiting for visas and for the official invitation to come. Is that where we're at right now? How long, generally, does this kind of thing take? At what point do we kind of start to worry that there's an unreasonable delay?

[Fred Gorrell]

To put that in order, everybody needs to get an invitation to have an official delegation, and then they provide the visa. You use the invitation to go to the embassy and then you would get a visa based on that invitation.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Okay.

[Fred Gorrell]

As you said, we have had a lot of history with China and canola, as well as from a plant health and a trade side. We had some issues in 2009 and 2016, but our exports to China have continued to grow .

We've been successful through sustained efforts. It's never been short term. In 2009 and 2016, these were really sustained efforts. We've always found a way forward. I think the question will be, and continues to be, when will we be able to have that technical meeting? Based on that, we will be able to see what the differences of interpretation are based on these weed seeds and other issues. It really does get down to—without our saying what you think and I think—how it's being interpreted. Then we really have to have that technical conversation to determine what the next steps are.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

You've made the request for the methodologies and the results of their samples and so on. What's the response been? Is the response from the Chinese government that they're just putting all that together and they'll make it available soon?