International Trade Committee on June 18th, 2019

[Bob Lowe]

As for the value add, as John said a while ago, our biggest question from other countries is, “How come you don't produce more beef?” Well, we want to produce more beef, and we have the ability and the land to produce more beef, but what we don't have is the labour, for one thing. Another thing is that we need to have government supportive of that.

One thing that's just come down has nothing to do with foreign trade, really, and those are the new transport regulations, which basically shut off the flow of cattle from western Canada to eastern Canada, which is going to drop the calf price in western Canada substantially. It has the effect of really hurting the feeding industry in eastern Canada. It could be a really bad thing in the end, so I guess you said the things against it. We need regulations in place to help us do what we know we can do and what the world wants us to do.

[Dean Allison, Conservative, Niagara West, ON]

You're saying that you guys are ready to go, but it's a question of labour, and it's obviously a question of regulations, etc. Would you support, then, some type of lower skilled entry to Canada with a pathway to citizenship, permanent residency or a temporary foreign workers program that was more focused towards your particular sector? Obviously we have temporary foreign worker programs in certain sectors, and agriculture is one of them, but talk to us about the labour piece. What do you see as the way to help you with the labour piece?

[Bob Lowe]

We want not low-skilled labour, but agriculturally skilled labour. The example that I can use is one of the two major plants in Canada. They're both pretty close to my operation. One of them would like commercial butchers. They can't get commercial butchers. They aren't worried about the really low-skilled labour, because they can get lots of them in Canadians, but for every one commercial butcher the plant can't bring in, it costs seven jobs for Canadians who are already here.

There are people who want to come here. They want to be good Canadians, and they want to pay taxes. It's so bureaucratic to get here, and there are very good reasons, but maybe not as.... I mean, it's costing a lot in agriculture.

[Dean Allison, Conservative, Niagara West, ON]

Sure, thanks. The clarity was around more skill, and that's where I was going, so thanks for clarifying that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Mark Eyking]

Thank you, Mr. Allison.

Thanks for those comments. You're right. We have to work hard for good agreements for Canadians, but the backfilling that helps the industry to fill them or capitalize them is important.

We're going to the NDP now.

Ms. Ramsey, you have three minutes.

[Tracey Ramsey, NDP, Essex, ON]

Thank you so much.

My questions are for Chief Bellegarde.

I take your point that this was the most inclusive deal to date, but certainly we'd like to see a true, nation-to-nation.... We would like to see indigenous peoples at the table as full partners in the negotiations.

Well, first of all, I want to say thank you for your push on those important pieces of legislation, including Bill C-262, Romeo Saganash's bill. It's very important that this bill pass.

When you were here previously on the TPP in June 2016, you brought the issue of a development of a human rights impact assessment for all trade agreements. You talked about the recommendation from Olivier De Schutter, the UN special rapporteur, to use the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples as a basis for assessing the impact of all trade agreements. I wonder if you can speak to whether that was a consideration in this agreement, or if there was any movement made in this agreement towards that important step.

Also, I look at your document here, and the first item of article 19 states that indigenous peoples must have free, informed and prior consent. I'm wondering if that's been obtained around this agreement. If not, were there conversations towards how that would be implemented in further trade agreements?

[National Chief Perry Bellegarde]

How much time do we have, Mr. Chair?

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[The Chair, Liberal, Mark Eyking]

Three more days.

[National Chief Perry Bellegarde]

One of the things that we're looking for is to go beyond the duty to consult and accommodate. Working towards free, prior and informed consent creates economic certainty.

There's been such a dialogue, discussion and debate in this country regarding the UN declaration, and I spin it around and say that it creates economic certainty. It creates economic certainty in every province and territory once it's passed. Governments and industry will know what the rules and terms of reference are. That's what it is. You have to know what the rules are.

As indigenous peoples, we're not stakeholders. We're indigenous peoples with rights and title, and that has to be respected. That's what this speaks to. When we talk about a human rights impact assessment, it's having impacts on all that because when we started talking about CUSMA.... There are four chapters, labour, environment, gender and indigenous people, and people are asking what that has to do with business. Well, it has a lot to do with business when you want to create the right environment for investments and economic certainty, so it's very important.

Those are some quick comments within my time—I know the chair's giving me the eye. We have to get that passed in terms of economic certainty—Bill C-262. It does create that economic certainty, and that's what we all have to push for.

[The Chair, Liberal, Mark Eyking]

Ms. Ramsey, you have another half a minute. Do you want to give it to Mr. Peterson?

[Tracey Ramsey, NDP, Essex, ON]

It's going to be gone by the time I say another sentence.

[The Chair, Liberal, Mark Eyking]

Okay. We're going to wrap up.

Mr. Peterson, you have the floor.

[Kyle Peterson, Liberal, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to welcome Chief Bellegarde and all the other witnesses.

My question is for Ms. Drouin.

Can you explain to the committee members why cultural industries are important to the Canadian economy and how crucial the cultural exemption is?

[Francis Drouin]

I would also say that if we had three days ahead of us, I would be happy to talk to you about this at length.

I would like to talk about the famous exemption, which is an important point.

I knew that I wouldn't be the star of the party because we asked for an exemption, but we did get it, and that's the end of it.

At the same time, it was not a given. They had to fight, and we had to fight to get it. We're getting a lot of pressure from the other markets, mostly from the United States, because they want to gain more access to our market to give access to their culture.

It's always a fight. What we've heard from the government is that it's not the first time they've negotiated with a partner. They always leave the cultural exemption to the end of the process, and we always fear that we will be a trade-off at the end of the process. We're very pleased that they stuck to their guns and that we have that cultural exemption. The cultural milieu is very successful in Canada. We have a movie industry. We have a music industry, and we have good literature and so on. There are a lot of jobs created in the music industry.

If I quote correctly the Conference Board of Canada, it's at least three-point-something per cent of the GDP of our country. It's important in terms of jobs and also in terms of other things, of what it represents. If we leave the sector to the market rules, we won't gain access to any other market because we're not the dominant market in terms of culture.

Thank you for asking me this question. I guess what I will add, because I'm sure I won't have another question, is that the culture is of national interest. What is coming in the next government is that you will be discussing a lot of very important laws, the revision of the Copyright Act, the revision of the Broadcasting Act, the revision of the Telecommunications Act, but they all relate to culture. It's business, but it all relates to culture. In the next government, please pay attention to it and participate in it, and we will be pleased to be in front of you to discuss it in greater detail.

Thank you.

[Kyle Peterson, Liberal, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Chief Bellegarde, again, thank you for being here.

I'm also on the government operations committee, and we did a study on the procurement system. We specifically looked at the capacity, capability and opportunities for indigenous businesses to partake in the RFP and procurement process in Canada. The report hasn't been tabled yet, although it might have been tabled this week. Suffice it to say, there's much more work that needs to be done on the government side to make sure we can capitalize on that opportunity.

Do you see this trade deal as a way of tapping into those indigenous businesses that were able to tap into that capacity? We met with a slew of them, very talented people, who just want to participate in the process. Is this a way of helping push that along?

[National Chief Perry Bellegarde]

Yes, it is. The short answer is yes. Build upon that, because when you start talking about.... Where's the inventory of businesses that can compete and bid on these contracts? Where's the capacity? Do they have the capacity to make sure they deliver a good-quality product and/or service in whatever industry or sector you're talking about? Procurement is key, but you also need an inventory of where those businesses are, so they know where to look. It's an opportunity to build upon that.

We have some chiefs who supply tobacco to Mexico, to the jails down there. We have some chiefs who are looking at developing potash mines to supply potash to India. We're starting. We just have to keep building. It's a world economy, so we have to get our foot in that door and keep progressing. That's how I see it. This is a start, no question. We just have to keep building.

[Kyle Peterson, Liberal, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Mark Eyking]

That wraps up our meeting and the dialogue.

Thank you very much, witnesses, for coming. This has been a very long and productive day for us as a committee. It was one of our longest meetings. We thank the witnesses for coming on short notice. We had a variety of sectors and parts of the country represented here today.

I don't know if we're going to see each other again, so colleagues, I thank you for all the hard work you've done over the last few years, and I thank all your staff who have made sure you're prepared.

Clerk, analysts, and everyone else who keeps us all going on the Hill here, thank you very much.

The meeting is adjourned.