Evidence of meeting #33 for International Trade in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was pei.
1:40 p.m.
Atlantic Chapter Executive Committee, Sierra Club Canada Foundation
It's so critical at this time to really take that seriously, not just climate change but all the—
1:40 p.m.
NDP
Tracey Ramsey NDP Essex, ON
I only have a couple of minutes. I'm going to go to Ms. Boyd.
Thank you very much for your presentation as well. You mentioned Médecins Sans Frontières, which has also been before this committee. The nurses of Canada have been before this committee saying that the TPP drug costs would harm Canadians. We've heard from many experts in the medical field, the health field, who say that the TPP endangers Canadians' health. So, that's widely supported.
The international aid is a very interesting piece that's been brought forward to us as well. We haven't really dug into it too much. On the one hand we are proud of our achievements throughout the world to help with diseases that are ravaging communities across the globe, and on the other hand we're going to sign an agreement that's going to make it more expensive to provide that aid. I wonder if you could speak a little bit to the implications of that.
1:40 p.m.
Chair, P.E.I. Health Coalition
Well, it's a little bit like saying we'll end supply management and we'll end those things to get the TPP and then we'll compensate. We're not going to be effectively giving our aid to the right places if we have to compromise with the TPP and we have to allow extensions of patents that cause a scarcity of medicine to those countries.
I spent six and a half years in West Africa. I was right with the poverty-stricken people. I've seen people die of curable diseases because they lack the help, the pharmaceuticals, and all those things. This has been going on and on. We're saying as Canadians that we're compassionate and we want to help change this, and then we get ourselves muddling into a trade agreement that complicates it, when there are all kinds of ways that we can give effective aid that will really help, whether it's restoring the funds that have been taken from the non-governmental organizations which are doing such great work overseas, or whether it's directing our bilateral aid in different countries in a way that's going to really strengthen their health care.
1:40 p.m.
NDP
Tracey Ramsey NDP Essex, ON
Yes, and we're spending this money already. It needs to be improved, but we are spending a significant amount of money to do this international aid, and we're going to make it more difficult.
I just want to share a quote from Jason Nickerson of Médecins Sans Frontières, who said that the TPP strengthens and reinforces this broken system.
I think that sums it up.
1:40 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Mark Eyking
That wraps up the time for the NDP.
We're going to move back to the Liberals. Madam Lapointe.
1:40 p.m.
Liberal
Linda Lapointe Liberal Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
Good afternoon and welcome.
Thank you for your presentations. I very much appreciate your views. It is very interesting to hear the views of the Prince Edward Island producers.
Earlier, you said that parts of the carcasses weren't used. What were you referring to? What is not being used from the beef carcasses here in Canada?
1:45 p.m.
Chairman, Prince Edward Island Cattle Producers
It's not pieces that aren't used. It's different parts of the animal that are worth more in other parts of the world, whether it be the tripe, the internal organs, and so on. It's just that different cultures, different people, eat different things, and with being able to market around the world, you can send more value to pieces that people appreciate more, I guess, in other parts of the world than we do in North America.
1:45 p.m.
Liberal
Linda Lapointe Liberal Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
Okay.
My understanding is that, if you were able to open those markets, you could ask for a higher price on those parts, which would probably be used for other things.
1:45 p.m.
Chairman, Prince Edward Island Cattle Producers
Yes, that's exactly right. We get a small amount of money for them now, but we could get a greater return.
1:45 p.m.
Liberal
Linda Lapointe Liberal Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
Can you calculate how much you are making now from those parts and how much you would be making if those markets were open?
1:45 p.m.
Chairman, Prince Edward Island Cattle Producers
Unfortunately, I couldn't put an accurate figure on it, but it is something we could get for you.
1:45 p.m.
Liberal
Linda Lapointe Liberal Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
Yes, I would appreciate it. That's important.
Earlier, you said that there were 400 producers in Prince Edward Island and that they were mainly family businesses with a few employees.
Have you calculated how many jobs that would be created or consolidated, if the Asian markets were open?
1:45 p.m.
Chairman, Prince Edward Island Cattle Producers
Well, in terms of processing, we have a small processing plant on Prince Edward Island that employs around 100 people. So, if there's access to foreign markets where we can value-add different products and value-add and process them differently here, I could see the processing plant doubling in size, which doesn't seem huge to maybe Alberta, but it is huge for Prince Edward Island.
1:45 p.m.
Liberal
Linda Lapointe Liberal Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
They are good jobs. Are the jobs in the processing sector paid more than minimum wage?
1:45 p.m.
Chairman, Prince Edward Island Cattle Producers
Yes, most definitely. I don't think there are too many minimum wage processing jobs anywhere anymore.
1:45 p.m.
Liberal
Linda Lapointe Liberal Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
Earlier, we talked about Australia a little. I think Australia already has an agreement with Japan.
If Canada does not ratify the TPP, do you think you might be losing some markets compared to the United States and Australia?
1:45 p.m.
Chairman, Prince Edward Island Cattle Producers
Oh, very much so. For every percentage that a tariff is in place, that means your competitor can sell that percentage cheaper. Yes, every trade barrier, every percentage of dollars makes a huge difference in the Canadian industry for sure.
1:45 p.m.
Liberal
Linda Lapointe Liberal Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
Thank you.
My next question is for Ms. Boyd.
You talked at length about the price of patented and generic drugs. Even though the patents are longer lasting and better protected in Europe, the prices of drugs in Europe are lower than in Canada. How do you explain that?
1:45 p.m.
Chair, P.E.I. Health Coalition
That's because every country except Canada that has a universal system of health care also has a universal drug plan.
1:45 p.m.
Liberal
Linda Lapointe Liberal Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
Did you know that we have a drug plan in Quebec?
We have this in Quebec.
1:45 p.m.
Chair, P.E.I. Health Coalition
I read that, and congratulations. It's wonderful.
In the European countries, they have it, and that's why the price of drugs is low. We don't have it in Canada. We need it. It's amazing that we don't have it already. It could be coming down the tube, hopefully. But we're up against the power of the big pharmaceuticals. That's the problem that this trade agreement also brings up. They are looking at our intellectual property rights, and they are looking at ways to get more control of our market, and we're producing less research and fewer jobs in that area.
When you have the big pharmaceutical companies that make three times as much money as anyone on the Fortune 500 list, that's how much profit they have and they're eager for more, and control. We're going to go in the face of that thing and say that it's okay, that we'll be the boy scouts of Canada, or the lap dogs for the United States and the corporations, and we will enter into the TPP. We are making ourselves so vulnerable it's not even funny.
I don't know if that answers your question completely.
1:50 p.m.
Liberal
Linda Lapointe Liberal Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
No, but your answer is helping me understand a lot better.
Thank you very much. I'm sorry, I have no more time.
1:50 p.m.
Liberal
Sukh Dhaliwal Liberal Surrey—Newton, BC
I'm going to continue with Ms. Boyd on patents.
I'm certain that you came across an article written by Matthew Wallace that offers potential argument in favour of patent restoration, one being that it incentivizes innovation but it offers companies enough monopoly time to allow adequate pharmaceutical development, and the lack of monopoly time would be a hindrance to drug development. I would like you to make comment on that.
Also, are you able to think of a scenario that balances a pharmaceutical drug's ability to properly develop without rushing, and a generic drug's ability to enter the market and compete?
1:50 p.m.
Chair, P.E.I. Health Coalition
I haven't heard about Mr. Wallace.
You know very well that there's been a tremendous amount of research that has gone into this by Canadians. The problem is that as we keep extending the patents, and we had an agreement that 10% of research and development would be Canadian, which it's never been.... I don't think you could have a meaningful time under the TPP where you could develop something because of the strength of the pharmaceutical companies. They want to make the changes. You can see that.
It's something unbelievable. About 85% or more of the drugs that we sell in Canada now and that come on the market are not new drugs. They've been evergreening drugs. We're going to have more and more pushes by corporations to quickly get the drugs through, which adds to the lack of safety of those drugs. That's why we say we need a pharmaceutical program in Canada that's public, added to our national system, which will protect Canadians and give us the free drugs we need, because so many Canadians can't take the medication as prescribed by doctors. Why have a long-drawn-out thing to try to get somewhere under a trade agreement? We have to tackle this right now for our country and get it done.
That's one thing. I can't see that it could be any other way.
As far as developing a scenario, do you mean a scenario that would help us to get control of our pharmacare industry ourselves so that we would better serve Canadians?