International Trade Committee on May 10th, 2021

[Hari Suthan Subramaniam]

That's a great question.

I'd say retrofit. Just like our home is retrofitted, I think the condos need to be retrofitted. There are so many companies in Canada and elsewhere that have come up with a lot of solutions to do that cost-effectively. If the government wanted to push that as a rebate in energy efficiency, absolutely, I think that would be great.

SMRs, I forgot to mention, are one of the leading things that Canadian companies currently do and that we can offer globally. I'd say that a proliferation of SMRs could go a long way across the federation to help ensure reliability of electricity for our economic growth.

[Randy Hoback, Conservative, Prince Albert, SK]

How does that change the build-out of the actual grid itself?

[Hari Suthan Subramaniam]

From a climate change resiliency lens, storms and so on, it makes the grid stronger because you're generating power close to consumption, which invariably means it's more efficient. You don't have to take long poles and wires in terms of transmission of power, which also means the grid becomes more resilient to any changes that might adversely affect it.

[Randy Hoback, Conservative, Prince Albert, SK]

Okay.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much.

We still have about 12 minutes of debate before the actual call of the vote, so we could get one more speaker to complete this round.

Mr. Arya, you have five minutes, please.

[Chandra Arya, Liberal, Nepean, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair. It's much appreciated.

Mr. Subramaniam, I understand your background was also in energy storage. With the advancement of batteries for energy storage, which I believe has increased the viability of renewable energy generation like solar and wind power, with technologies that are changing, the batteries that are actually being used now, from Australia to the United States, do you think there is the potential for Canada to be one of the leading players in the supply chain for the development of batteries?

[Hari Suthan Subramaniam]

Mr. Arya, it's a bit of a loaded question.

In terms of a global supply chain, it's hard to answer that. I think the best way to answer is this: If companies come up where there are leaders, how do we ensure they're part of the global supply chain? That's how I would answer that question. Given lithium expansion and a couple of others, there are different types of batteries, including that of my colleague at Ballard.

Yes, there are definitely clean-tech leaders in it. Storage technology is evolving so much there will be a need for multiple styles of storage based on its use and where it's placed.

[Chandra Arya, Liberal, Nepean, ON]

Thank you.

My next question is for Mr. Pocard, if he's still there.

We came to power in 2015, and since 2016 we have invested quite a bit of money into the buildup of charging and refuelling stations. As I was saying to Mr. Allan, Canadians need to know there are charging and refuelling stations available before they can go in for zero-emission vehicles. They should have the same level of trust. Today I can drive my car, and I know for sure I'm going to get gas. Canadians should have the same level of trust and certainty, whether they're charging their electric vehicle or they're trying to fill up their tanks with next-generation clean fuels such as hydrogen.

Where do you think that is going? When do you think we'll get a viable number of refuelling stations for hydrogen?

[Nicolas Pocard]

It's a very good question. I'd like maybe to respond with an alternative approach.

Maybe one way to do it is to start with heavy-duty mobility buses and trucks. You start with a fleet-operated vehicle. Those vehicles have the largest contribution to emissions compared with a personal car, which is used only a couple of hours per day. We should start with a fleet of buses or trucks. We talked earlier about warehouses and distribution centres. It's much easier to imagine that you have one refuelling station at a fleet location, and then the same infrastructure can be used for tens or hundreds of vehicles.

I think that would be the way to start. You start where you have the biggest impact on emissions. You start with a fleet-based vehicle, and from there you can grow. Maybe it's easier to do it this way than starting with the passenger car market.

[Chandra Arya, Liberal, Nepean, ON]

That's an excellent suggestion, especially when it comes to buses and trucks. Fleet ownership is the key. You're suggesting that we take that approach and then gradually come out elsewhere.

[Nicolas Pocard]

Yes.

[Chandra Arya, Liberal, Nepean, ON]

Okay. Thank you.

Mr. Allan, I've been calling for a comprehensive Canada-wide strategy to develop everything related to batteries, from mines, minerals and metals to technologies to final manufacturing. In the U.S. today, we find $2-billion plants, I think four or five of them. They are each $2 billion investments in the manufacturing of batteries, while in Canada we are still trying to find our foothold into which part of the supply chain we can and should invest.

The U.S. has identified Canada as a major source of the minerals required for the batteries. In fact, they've identified that as a national security issue. Recently the U.S. Department of Commerce held a meeting of miners and battery manufacturers to discuss how the Canadian industry can be developed. Do you have any thoughts on that?

[Travis Allan]

You have perfectly described the opportunity. We need to make sure that Canada is at the forefront in terms of responsibly mining those metals and minerals and using clean electricity, and I hope we can go further. I hope we can also be responsible for processing, and I hope we can have battery manufacturing here, maybe not for all the batteries in the world, but I do think we should be trying to get our fair chance, because that's how we get those value-added jobs with the huge opportunities.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much.

Thank you to all our witnesses. There has been tremendous, very valuable information from all of you. Thank you all very much.

I move adjournment of the meeting.

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Surrey—Newton, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair. You did a great job. We're just finishing on time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you all very much.

The committee is adjourned.