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Evidence of meeting #18 for Justice and Human Rights in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was need.
Evidence of meeting #18 for Justice and Human Rights in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was need.
7:40 p.m.
As an Individual
I think what's happened with the RCMP and what has happened since the first event, when Jonathan was murdered, became a media event, with PR people wanting to get the right twist on it.
I think in the case of Jonathan, the most important and valued thing would be to find out the truth as best they could. I think when the lead officer attended the celebration of life, it convinced him that Jonathan was not any type of gangster. We knew that from the beginning. He was just a young man who loved tearing apart expensive cars--Ferraris, you name it--to put in the most expensive equipment you could think of.
But I really think they're spending too much time trying to protect their own interests, and they've totally missed the point of being careful.... There are some officers in there that have been very helpful, I can say that. I think a lot of them are being managed, perhaps too much. They have to keep their lips tight, and they can't share.
They knew that the vehicle that was shot came from Prince George. It was owned by the Bacon brothers. They knew about two days in, the second day. What drug dealers do is they buy their boys cars, big cars, and they just pick up their cell phones and call them when they need a drug run from here to there or wherever.
They knew. The RCMP know a lot more than what they're prepared to share, and I think they have to be more open and quick to assist the families. If it turns out there's guilt later, or something else like that, that's something else you have to deal with. But in cases like this, where I would say from our perspective, it's pretty straightforward and clear, then it needs to be said soon. It needs to be said clearly.
The victim assistance needs to be there like a SWAT team, just like they do when they go after the people who are the criminals. You need the reverse on the other side. You need qualified people, sensitive people who are prepared to help. Because right now, this family is destroyed. Mary lives in North Vancouver, I live downtown. She can't cope with me being in the house. She's like a mother bear taking care of our 16-year-old daughter.
If the information was out there, there wouldn't have been a need a month a half ago for the RCMP.... Because they needed some support. There were eleven people being killed in one week. They decided they needed to march out someone. What did they do? They asked Mary Barber to do the marching, and plead with the press to get someone to turn the bad guys over. This, in my mind, was totally inappropriate, and it shouldn't have happened. It was only a matter of minutes before they went on stage that they told her that her son was not guilty. The second thing they told her was that the car was actually the Bacon brothers' car, which we knew.
They wouldn't let us see the vehicle. We saw the second vehicle where a young woman got her arm almost shot off. We saw that vehicle. But they wouldn't let us see Jonathan Barber's car that he was driving, the Porsche.
What happened that day? It was a media circus. My partner was on the front page of the paper, The Vancouver Sun. The news clips had the entire blood, gore, everything. They had clips of the whole thing. I couldn't believe it. The car was exposed to the press. Theatre, theatre, theatre.
My feeling is, get real. We are human beings. We've got to stop the circus.
7:45 p.m.
As an Individual
It all started with the fact that they said they could not declare him innocent because it was under investigation. They kept saying that over and over and over again. It was the same thing. Even when Kirk was declared innocent, it was tacked on to the end of Jonathan Barber's press conference declaring him finally innocent. I talked to Bill Fordy. They couldn't even tell me why it happened--could not even tell me.
It was the same line: because it's still under investigation. It's still under investigation. It's really hard to live under that type of suspicion. We all knew he was innocent, just as with Jonathan, but there are people who don't know us, who questioned that. As I said in that article, we have been treated so differently. That “not guilty” has made such a difference in our lives. It's not fair.
Yes, I would like a letter to somebody. This is not fair.
Thank you.
7:45 p.m.
As an Individual
On your question about why this happened with the RCMP, or whatever, and how we weren't being contacted, I want to give the police the benefit of the doubt that they were doing their job. Until Kirk was finally declared innocent, I didn't think that at all, because why would I? They weren't contacting me or telling me anything.
So obviously people need to work together, and they're not working together. When they didn't tell us that Kirk was going to be declared innocent and we found that out from the media, that was just appalling. Why were we not contacted about something like that? We'd been waiting for so long. That's what our family wanted, and we never got that.
If the police are too busy to contact the families, then get someone who is educated and reliable to do their job and contact the families on a regular basis. That's what has to happen.
Thanks.
7:45 p.m.
As an Individual
I won't be long, but I agree 100% with what's been said here.
I called my representative every month or so to ask about my son--I never got a phone call--and he'd return my call in a day or two and say there was nothing to tell me, and they were still working on some file. What I figure happened is that there were so many murders--my son was almost the first innocent person to be killed--and the police were getting nowhere. They were out-gunned. They couldn't infiltrate the gangs, and the gangs were laughing at the police departments. There were no consequences anyway. What were they going to do to them--give them house arrest and let them play with a Nintendo or something?
I'm in favour of time being given if guns are found on individuals, and everything else. They have to start having some consequences.
But I think the RCMP were overpowered and didn't know what to say, so they didn't say anything. They figured they didn't want to open their mouths.
That's just the way I feel about it, I guess.
7:50 p.m.
Conservative
7:50 p.m.
NDP
Joe Comartin NDP Windsor—Tecumseh, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you for being here. And I say that from this perspective. I don't have any questions. It's much like when the committee heard from the Schellenbergs and Mrs. Mohan. I can't suggest this will be any consolation to you, but I want you to know, from all of us on the committee, that when we hear these stories, even as unfairly as you've been treated, it gives us added incentive to find solutions. It's not a perfect world by any means, and you know that better than anybody. But it gives those of us who have the ability to make legislative decisions an added incentive to keep working at it to try to achieve that perfect situation and that perfect world.
7:50 p.m.
Conservative
Andrew Saxton Conservative North Vancouver, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I want to thank all of you for coming here today: Mr. Rafuse, Mrs. Holifield, Mr. Holifield, and Mrs. Holifield. Thank you for sharing your pain with us, and thank you for sharing your tragic experiences with us.
As hard as we try, we can't even begin to understand the pain you've gone through. Your stories today have literally taken our breath away. I know that repeating your stories is not an easy thing to do, so thank you very much for coming in and doing that.
You've really highlighted the importance of victims' rights and the rights of the families of victims, because you're all victims in this. We have to put the rights of victims foremost in our minds and foremost in our laws. So thank you for coming here and standing up for victims, because that's what you've done today.
We are trying to improve the situation. We have an ombudsman now for victims. Hearing your stories is helping us come up with some better solutions. So please feel free to share your ideas with us about how we can make sure the suffering you've gone through does not continue, so others can benefit from your pain and your loss. Hopefully there can be some conclusion in that.
Thank you again for coming here today.
7:50 p.m.
Conservative
John Weston Conservative West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC
I'll add my thanks, too, because you don't have to be here today. It's really hard for you, but you are here, and I just commend you so much.
I do have a question. What do tell our kids when we go home tonight? What do we tell our kids who are the potential inductees into these gangs? Do you have anything that we might say, but not as legislators? I mean, you've done your job, and as legislators we are now impacted, and maybe we're going to be better legislators, because it's not just hard time; it's helping Canadians who are potential victims. You've done a great job.
But how do we tell our families and our kids, the potential criminals someday, to not go there? Do you have anything for us?
7:50 p.m.
As an Individual
I'll say what I believe. It all starts with parenting. If your children are being raised like I figure they are, probably, you won't have a problem. I think it's the parents' responsibility. For some of these kids that are out murdering and in gangs, you can't tell me that for a kid who has an $8-an-hour job and is driving a car worth $70,000, $80,000, or $100,000...you can't tell me that his parents don't put two and two together and figure that something's wrong.
It has to start at home. I figure that if you tell your kids the truth, point their feet in the right direction, and tell them right from wrong, I don't think you're going to have much of a problem. Sure, the odd individual is going to go astray, but I figure it all starts with parenting. If they're given the proper advice, I don't think you'll have a problem.
It's just that some of these ones we have here now, they're just...I think their parents are half.... Look at the Sanghera group. I mean, their dad is a gangster. As for the Bacon family, they don't seem very upset about what their sons are doing. They're in court supporting all of them. All of them are murderers and gangsters and thugs.
7:55 p.m.
As an Individual
The parents should be held liable, that's for sure, when the kids are young. Absolutely. It's the family unit.
You need to know where your children go, who they associate with, and what they do, and you need to start that when they're young when you're a parent. You can't just do it all of sudden when your kid is 18 and you have no idea of how to control them, because by then it's too late.
If they don't have anything to do with their spare time, put them in different groups, in sports, theatre, or whatever. Keep them busy so they're not led astray.
7:55 p.m.
As an Individual
I'd like to say that the success I've had with my two fantastic sons, one 38 and one 35, who are wonderful men, and the successes Mary has had with her children, are really basic. It's taking your child and loving your child and showing them that there are things they can do. Colleen loves dancing, so she's gone that way.
But I think the important thing is that we need the infrastructure for kids to do things. I live downtown in the core here and they've just put in this new skating rink. I made some proposals to the planning board. I said to them that whenever I walked by there at night I saw kids doing hip-hop dance and things like that, and practising and things like that. I'm saying that we need more of those things in the community. We need more basketball hoops so kids can go and hang out and have a good time.
We need more support for the Boys and Girls Clubs of our communities. We don't need more social agencies to deal out money to support things that aren't helping kids. Let's make it more of a support from organizations like the Scouts, the Guides, and the YMCA, those organizations that have been doing it for years, and give them the support they need to keep the thing going.
And let's encourage community. Community is the only way we're going to survive in Canada with our children and our children's children and in being able to express to them and let them know how much we love them and how much we care for them.
Like what was said here on the issue concerning knowing where your child is, Mary knows where her child is. Also, don't be afraid to ask the questions. Find out where she's going, who is going to be there, and whether the parents are going to be home. Ask the serious questions. We need life-skills questions taught to parents on how to teach their kids to survive. We need to provide some courses on how to grow up and how to handle a kid.
We live on a different planet today. We have TV that is so advanced. Ten years ago, hookers looked like hookers, and now everybody on TV looks like a hooker. The difference, and what's going on, is what the kids see through the media and what the kids get on MSN. As parents, we need to be able to provide the facilities for them to go to something that's diverse, other than having them just watching TV or doing the Internet. It's community, community, community: that's what we need to work on.
Thank you.