Evidence of meeting #45 for Justice and Human Rights in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was c-36.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Daniel Petit Conservative Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair. My question is for Ms. Rosenfeldt or Mr. Mandelcorn.
Earlier, I had thought that Ms. Rosenfeldt was talking about the suffering of victims who had to go back to court to explain.... She said that she would soon have to go back and relive something traumatic that happened several years ago.
Ms. Rosenfeldt, I want to tell you how I see this. In Quebec, on December 6, 1989, a man killed 14 young women. This tragedy is known as the Massacre at the Polytechnique. Over the past 20 years, each year on December 6, we remember what happened. There is a great deal of suffering. Fourteen young women were killed. Every year, the mothers and sisters of the victims come to mourn for their loved one. Imagine if Mr. Lépine had been sentenced to 25 years in prison. We see their suffering after 20 years: it still weighs them down.
Ms. Rosenfeldt, I would like to address another issue with you. In Quebec, a murder was committed at the National Assembly. Former colleagues of Mr. Ménard's were killed by a man called Denis Lortie. Three people were shot at the National Assembly. The murderer is not currently in prison. The families of the three people who were killed are still suffering today.
You say that we are trying to resolve the problem. Are you in favour, yes or no, of section 745.6? Is what we are doing sufficient or not?
Victims of Violence
No, I don't agree with 745.6. I do not agree with the faint hope clause. I agree with what our Criminal Code states: 25 years is what you get for first degree murder. I believe you were talking about the case of Marc Lepine and the 14 women he killed. Marc Lepine killed himself at that time. But you're quite right, the families do carry on and have a memorial.
To me and to a lot of victims, it's just a case of truth in sentencing and a case of right and wrong. It's 25 years or it's 15 years. If this issue came up, and if legislators and the Canadian public felt that 25 years was too harsh, if it became 15 years, then that would be our law and I wouldn't have a problem with it. What I have a problem with is this business of going through the back door. I think it's wrong, and I think that it must be changed.
I don't know how else this is going to be addressed. These issues have been talked about over and over again. To me, the only question is whether it's 25 years or 15 years. If Canada does not want 25 years, then let's go to work and have it brought down to 15 years, where it seems that most people are comfortable.
Am I punitive? I don't think so. I just believe very strongly, and most victims believe very strongly, that you have to be truthful, you have to be upfront. I think the faint hope clause is just plain wrong. It's not sitting right, and it hasn't been for years. I believe we have to stay with the Criminal Code, and I believe that the 745.6 has to be repealed. However, I don't have a problem, because of our Constitution, with the retroactive question. I don't have a problem with others going through hearings, if that's the law. If the law states that's what it is, then that's what it is. I just can't see fooling around with it, and that's where it gets tricky and makes most of us victims pretty upset. It's wrong.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Ed Fast
Thank you.
We're at the end of our time and we still have some committee business to take care of, so I want to thank all three of you. It's a difficult issue for Parliament to deal with, and we respect your taking the time to address us. Your testimony will form part of the public record.
We'll suspend for five minutes.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Ed Fast
I reconvene the meeting.
Before we get to the motion there are three items. You should have before you a budget for travel to Toronto on our organized crime study. I believe we had set that for November 30. You've had a chance to review the budget, I hope.
What is your wish? I need a mover.
Conservative
Rob Moore Conservative Fundy Royal, NB
No, I'm just asking. On our last bus trip there were no Liberals, so I would like a firm commitment that they are going to ride the bus with the rest of us.
Liberal
Brian Murphy Liberal Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB
Was there a big poster on it? Was there a big advertisement on it?
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Ed Fast
Just so you all know, we are not in camera on this, so we should probably get to the point.
Monsieur Lemay.
Bloc
Marc Lemay Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC
No. In fact, I wanted to know whether this trip was scheduled for November 30.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Ed Fast
We would get there Sunday night. On Monday we would hear witnesses. We would be back home Monday evening.
Mr. Comartin.
NDP
Joe Comartin NDP Windsor—Tecumseh, ON
I come through there. I'm using points anyway for that period of time, so I wouldn't be looking for the committee to cover it.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Ed Fast
That's great. That will reduce our costs. Thank you.
Do we have a mover to approve this?
Bloc
Serge Ménard Bloc Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC
We would leave on Monday morning for Toronto and come back Monday evening.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Ed Fast
Oui. We will all come from different places. I'll be coming from Abbotsford. Some of you will be coming from Montreal.
Bloc
November 2nd, 2009 / 5:05 p.m.
Conservative
Conservative
Brent Rathgeber Conservative Edmonton—St. Albert, AB
I'm not going, but you will be landing from England. You have the dates right, Mr. Ménard.