Evidence of meeting #21 for Justice and Human Rights in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was public.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Simon Fournel-Laberge  As an Individual
Gaylene Schellenberg  Lawyer, Legislation and Law Reform, Canadian Bar Association
Scott Bergman  Section Member, National Criminal Justice Section, Canadian Bar Association
William Trudell  Chair, Canadian Council of Criminal Defence Lawyers
Julie McAuley  Director, Canadian Centre for Justice Statistics, Statistics Canada
Martha Mackinnon  Executive Director, Justice for Children and Youth
Agnes Samler  President, Defence for Children International-Canada
Les Horne  Executive Director, Defence for Children International-Canada
Mia Dauvergne  Senior Analyst, Policing Services Program, Canadian Centre for Justice Statistics, Statistics Canada
Craig Grimes  Chief/Advisor, Courts Program, Canadian Centre for Justice Statistics, Statistics Canada
Irwin Elman  Provincial Advocate, Office of the Provincial Advocate for Children and Youth (Ontario)
Lee Tustin  Advocate for Children and Youth, Office of the Provincial Advocate for Children and Youth (Ontario)

1 p.m.

NDP

Megan Leslie NDP Halifax, NS

They are in custody.

1 p.m.

Director, Canadian Centre for Justice Statistics, Statistics Canada

Julie McAuley

Once the person is in either remand or sentence custody, we have that information.

1 p.m.

NDP

Megan Leslie NDP Halifax, NS

That is only for aboriginals, not for other....

Is it possible for us to get that?

1 p.m.

Director, Canadian Centre for Justice Statistics, Statistics Canada

Julie McAuley

Yes, we can provide you with that information.

1 p.m.

NDP

Megan Leslie NDP Halifax, NS

Thank you. That's important.

I'm probably....

1 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Ed Fast

You can have one quick question.

1 p.m.

NDP

Megan Leslie NDP Halifax, NS

Justice for Children and Youth, should we amend this bill, or should we just abandon it?

1 p.m.

Executive Director, Justice for Children and Youth

Martha Mackinnon

I said that I actually believe that putting the principles mandated by the Supreme Court of Canada into the legislation helps, for sure, non-lawyers. But section 3, as people have talked about, is already currently the balancing. It talks about long-term protection. It talks about educating the public about how the act is working. It is already the balancing. To include reduced moral blameworthiness is a good thing. It is a principle. It's good to know up front.

1 p.m.

NDP

Megan Leslie NDP Halifax, NS

What about the rest of it?

1 p.m.

Executive Director, Justice for Children and Youth

Martha Mackinnon

I identified the three things the Supreme Court has ruled on. They affect more than three sections, because the presumption stuff occurs in different contexts, but that's for clarity, not for necessity. Indeed, the rest, in my view, would make things worse than they currently are, and at a great cost.

1 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Ed Fast

Thank you.

I'm going to use my discretion and cut it off here. I know that the government typically gets a question, but we are running short of time. We want to hear from Mr. Elman and Mr. Tustin as well.

I'm going to thank the witnesses for appearing. Your evidence will form part of the considerations.

While the witnesses are moving out and we're having Monsieurs Elman and Tustin take their places, there are a couple of items of committee business that are really important.

First, we circulated the budget for this review of Bill C-4. I need approval of that.

June 3rd, 2010 / 1 p.m.

Liberal

Brian Murphy Liberal Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB

I move its adoption.

1 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Ed Fast

We have a motion to adopt the budget.

(Motion agreed to) [See Minutes of Proceedings]

1 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Ed Fast

The second is that we have the second report of the subcommittee, the steering committee, which is sort of stale-dated, because we've now agreed to meet in the first 15 minutes of our next meeting to deal with the issue of the number of witnesses.

1 p.m.

Liberal

Alexandra Mendes Liberal Brossard—La Prairie, QC

Should we wait until then?

1 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Ed Fast

It is a report from the steering committee. It might be stale-dated, but we need to approve it. That's all I need.

1 p.m.

Liberal

Alexandra Mendes Liberal Brossard—La Prairie, QC

Okay, fair enough. I move to approve it.

1 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Ed Fast

Thank you for that.

(Motion agreed to) [See Minutes of Proceedings]

1 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Ed Fast

We'll take a two-minute break.

1 p.m.

Bloc

Serge Ménard Bloc Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC

I have a meeting at 1 o'clock, like Mr. Dominic LeBlanc. We have a preparatory meeting for the question period. I understand that you, on the government side, don't have that.

1:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Ed Fast

Monsieur Ménard, the notice for two and a half hours went out to you. This should come as no surprise to you.

1:05 p.m.

Bloc

Serge Ménard Bloc Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC

Excuse me?

1:05 p.m.

Bloc

Marc Lemay Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC

Yes, notice was given, but this is the last time.

1:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Ed Fast

There is an agreement at committee that we go to two and a half hours.

1:05 p.m.

Conservative

Rick Norlock Conservative Northumberland—Quinte West, ON

Mr. Chair, one minute people want longer and then when you give them longer they complain that they have to be out of here quicker.