Evidence of meeting #33 for Justice and Human Rights in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was application.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:50 p.m.
NDP
Joe Comartin NDP Windsor—Tecumseh, ON
Out of the 13, you had 11 that were basically parole violations, minor infractions of their attendance at work or abstinence from alcohol, those kinds of things.
4:50 p.m.
Counsel, Criminal Law Policy Section, Department of Justice
That's my understanding. There were 11 for non-violent offences, breach of condition.
4:50 p.m.
NDP
Joe Comartin NDP Windsor—Tecumseh, ON
On the other two, I understood one was a violent offence involving a robbery and the other one was a theft of some sort.
4:50 p.m.
Counsel, Criminal Law Policy Section, Department of Justice
No, it was an assault with a weapon. There were two violent offences: robbery, and the second one was assault with a weapon. As I said, I don't know what sentences they received for those separate offences. I just know their parole was revoked.
4:50 p.m.
NDP
Joe Comartin NDP Windsor—Tecumseh, ON
Okay.
I'm a bit surprised at the figure of the 276 applications, because last year when we got the numbers from Mr. Head, at that point there had only been 174 applications with the information he gave us. Is Correctional Service Canada your source for this information?
4:50 p.m.
Counsel, Criminal Law Policy Section, Department of Justice
Yes, but the 174 Mr. Head referred to at that time were people who had gone to stage two and appeared in front of a jury. These are people who got past stage one.
The 276 figure I gave are the people we know who have applied at stage one. We know that of those people...last year it was 174, and now the figure I have is 181 who actually got past stage one.
4:55 p.m.
NDP
Joe Comartin NDP Windsor—Tecumseh, ON
Okay. As the minister put it earlier today, even with this low standard, the judge at the initial stage found about 100 that didn't even meet that low standard. They were basically frivolous applications. He weeded those out, so the victims knew early on they weren't going anyplace. The victims are notified both of the initial application and the result of that initial application.
4:55 p.m.
Director General and Senior General Counsel, Criminal Law Policy Section, Department of Justice
Yes, and they are allowed to have input to that early application as well, so they would have known at the time that the judge didn't permit it to go on to the second stage, that it wasn't proceeding at that time, but it leaves open the possibility that another application will be brought.
4:55 p.m.
NDP
Joe Comartin NDP Windsor—Tecumseh, ON
In fact, again with the information we had from Mr. Head last time, of the 174 first applications, four applied a second time. That was it. Nobody applied a third time.
4:55 p.m.
Director General and Senior General Counsel, Criminal Law Policy Section, Department of Justice
If that's his information, I'm sure that's correct. We don't have that specific--
4:55 p.m.
NDP
Joe Comartin NDP Windsor—Tecumseh, ON
You didn't get that information on this round.
I have a quick question on foreign transfers.
We're going to have this result--if you can agree with me--that if this bill goes through, those people who can get out on parole in other countries in that 10- to 15-year range are going to be able to come back to Canada with no supervision at all. Is that right? That's going to be the consequence of this bill, unintended, of course, but it's going to be the consequence.
4:55 p.m.
Director General and Senior General Counsel, Criminal Law Policy Section, Department of Justice
No.
4:55 p.m.
NDP
Joe Comartin NDP Windsor—Tecumseh, ON
They're going to serve out their sentences. They are going to get early parole in all those other jurisdictions, because that is the average they get. Instead of spending time back here in Canada, initially in incarceration and then out on parole, they're going to come back as Canadian citizens to Canada and there is going to be no supervision of those criminals at all.
4:55 p.m.
Counsel, Criminal Law Policy Section, Department of Justice
Well, I can't say that, because they're getting out on parole in the jurisdiction where they committed the offence, and I don't know what the conditions of their parole would be.
4:55 p.m.
NDP
Joe Comartin NDP Windsor—Tecumseh, ON
Come on. Those jurisdictions have no ability to supervise them in Canada, right?
4:55 p.m.
Counsel, Criminal Law Policy Section, Department of Justice
But I'm assuming their conditions will be similar to ours, that they not leave the state or the province or the city without notifying--
4:55 p.m.
NDP
Joe Comartin NDP Windsor—Tecumseh, ON
You're more optimistic than I am. In fact, the reality is that most countries are quite happy to get rid of them and give them back to the country they came from.
Those are all the questions.
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
Stephen Woodworth Conservative Kitchener Centre, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I wasn't sure what we were doing here. Perhaps I could give the first minute to Mr. Norlock, if that's all right, and then take the rest of my time. Would that be all right?
November 2nd, 2010 / 4:55 p.m.
Conservative
Rick Norlock Conservative Northumberland—Quinte West, ON
I'll do my best.
I want to go back to much of the questioning that has been put to our witnesses from the department here. Of course, there has been a lot of concentration on recidivism, a lot of concentration on what the accused.... But the minister was rather specific, I believe, and you can tell me if I'm wrong.
This is not about the accused. This is about the revictimization of the families and loved ones, and in many cases the community and the neighbourhood in which the murders took place. I think it needs to be said that there is no faint hope for the dead person or, in some cases, the dead persons. They don't get a chance to be reprieved from the grave and be with their loved ones again. They don't get a chance to have all of the care of the community to make them a better person. They're dead. Unwillingly, they had their life taken from them.
It's nice to pat the guy or girl who did it to them. This still opens the door for the person who sees the terrible thing they've done. Tell me if I'm wrong. If they have taken part, in prison, in all the programs to make them a better person, it does give them an opportunity to change their life on the outside of a prison instead of on the inside of a casket. Would you just confirm that this does not close the door to that?
4:55 p.m.
Director General and Senior General Counsel, Criminal Law Policy Section, Department of Justice
The bill would preserve the opportunity for the inmate to apply for parole after serving 25 years. The 25-year period would start at the date of their arrest. So, yes, they would have opportunities to make an application to the parole board, and the parole board would receive it with all the information and apply all the standards that they use to determine if that person should be released into the community and on what conditions.
5 p.m.
Conservative
Stephen Woodworth Conservative Kitchener Centre, ON
If I could now pick it up, I'd like to respond to the issue of section 745.01. I assume you're probably familiar with it. It is a statement that the judge is required to read on sentencing. One of the first things the judge has to say is “The offender is not eligible for parole until...”, and then a specified date, which in the case of murder is 25 years, so the offender is not eligible for parole for 25 years.
Then he goes on to say:
However, after serving at least 15 years of the sentence, the offender may apply under section 745.6 of the Criminal Code for a reduction in the number of years of imprisonment without eligibility for parole. If the jury hearing the application reduces the period of parole ineligibility, the offender may then make an application for parole under the Corrections and Conditional Release Act at the end of that reduced period.
