Evidence of meeting #42 for Justice and Human Rights in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was judge.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
Marlene Jennings Liberal Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC
I just wish to clarify: I read all of the report several times.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
Rob Nicholson Conservative Niagara Falls, ON
You did quote a number of things from the first part of the report.
As with a novel, for instance, you can't just read the first page or the first chapter; you have to read it all. If you had continued to read, you would have seen the report state on page 3:
There was much discussion regarding repeat and violent offenders, which lead some to think the YCJA needed to be amended to strengthen the notion of public safety and to reflect the public concern regarding youth crime and crime sprees.
Again, on page 4—
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
Rob Nicholson Conservative Niagara Falls, ON
—the report reads:
The criteria for detaining a young person was much debated with many suggesting that the YCJA should be changed to previous findings of failure to comply....
On the next page it states:
Participants in all jurisdictions were clear that Canada must have a distinct and separate justice system for youth than for adults.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
4:15 p.m.
Bloc
Serge Ménard Bloc Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC
When the Minister quotes the report, could he do as we do and indicate the page where the passage he is reading appears?
December 9th, 2010 / 4:15 p.m.
Bloc
Marc Lemay Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC
That's unfortunate, Minister. I like listening to you, because you know exactly what to bring up to outrage us. That is exactly what you are doing, and it's quite brilliant.
It's unfortunate that my colleague Ms. Glover has not read the report. If she had read it, she would have seen that the reality she says she has witnessed in Manitoba—I'm not there myself, but she is—doesn't correspond at all to what I have read.
There is a lot of talk about aboriginal people, for example. There is a lot of talk about difficulties and violent crimes. But you can't take an isolated paragraph as you are doing, Minister. You have to read the entire thing.
For example, the report says: "Concern was expressed at the over-representation of Aboriginal youth in the youth justice system." It's bizarre, but I do not see anywhere, anywhere at all, where Ms. Glover got the information she gave in her speech.
I listened to you and you said that the people who were there, in your ministerial consultations throughout Canada, are the people who are involved in administering the Act on a daily basis. They you talk about "consistent messages from all provinces and territories" and "[l]ittle support for changes to the YCJA at this time". I am not the one saying this; it is written in the report.
There is an entire section entitled "Need a strong social safety net to support implementation of the YCJA". That is the product of your consultations, Minister. There is another one entitled "Support for review of the pre-trial detention provisions". You like that. There are interesting tidbits. Farther on, it says, and listen carefully, because I stress this: "No support for introducing deterrence as a sentencing principle". I am not the one saying this. Wow, Minister!
It also says that "[p]rogramming is critical to YCJA's effectiveness" and there is a "[s]ummary of other messages". You have to read the entire report. I have read it three times, and just in case, by some misfortune, the English version isn't the right one, I read it in French and English. I can assure you that this report does not provide support for your bill.
I will ask you my question. Why, even though I know you don't like it, did you not model it on the situation in Quebec, which has had phenomenal success, as we can see throughout the report, in rehabilitating young offenders? Why tear something down that is working so well? Everyone is asking you not to touch this Act. Give it time to mature. Five years is too short. The judges are the ones telling you this, Minister.
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
Rob Nicholson Conservative Niagara Falls, ON
Thank you.
You said I was taking selective quotes from the report. I was responding to selective quotes that Madam Jennings made. I thought that was a fair comment and that I could perhaps quote from it as well.
Now, you made comments specifically with respect to Ms. Glover. Ms. Glover is an expert. She is somebody I value, and she is a value to this country in terms of what she has done and what she has stood for in this area.
You did mention Manitoba specifically, so I will read from page 8. Under “Manitoba”, it says:
This roundtable highlighted the severe problem of car theft in the Province. The public perception is these young people are out of control and are not held accountable. A concern was raised that the protection of the public has taken a back seat to rehabilitation.
And it continues. That is directly from the report.
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
Rob Nicholson Conservative Niagara Falls, ON
No, you go ahead, Mr. Lemay. I don't want to be taking up all the time with answers.
4:20 p.m.
Bloc
Marc Lemay Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC
No. Read the rest. That's the problem. I agree with what you are saying, but you have to read the rest. It goes like this:
Strong suggestions to look at evidence-based policy and research on what works.
