Evidence of meeting #29 for Justice and Human Rights in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was test.
A recording is available from Parliament.
11:35 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Anthony Housefather
Thank you very much, Mr. Rankin.
We're now going to go to Ms. Khalid, who is going to be sharing her time with Mr. Hussen.
October 20th, 2016 / 11:35 a.m.
Liberal
Iqra Khalid Liberal Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Mayers, for coming in and giving your testimony.
I want to change track a little and ask whether a passive device can test for other substances of impairment, such as marijuana.
11:35 a.m.
Chair, Alcohol Test Committee, Canadian Society of Forensic Science
At the risk of stepping on the toes of my colleagues from the drugs and driving committee, and since the chair doesn't sit that far from me in my lab and I'm very afraid of her, the answer is no.
We don't have any viable technologies available of this nature. My colleagues on drugs and driving are before committees now discussing saliva testing for the presence of other types of drugs that can cause impairment, but breath testing is generally confined to drugs that are volatile and will be on the breath—in other words, alcohol.
11:35 a.m.
Liberal
Iqra Khalid Liberal Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON
That's very interesting.
Do you think that such a product could be developed by forensic scientists that could be used in a very passive way to detect impairment from substances other than alcohol?
11:35 a.m.
Chair, Alcohol Test Committee, Canadian Society of Forensic Science
The engineering challenges would be huge. The wide variety of chemistries and differences in drugs that can cause impairment make it almost impossible to have anything that will detect passively those types of drugs.
What you would have to have is about a million-dollar mass spectrometer at the side of the road, taking head space from the car. If you think what I'm talking about is costly, you have no idea what that would cost the police services.
11:35 a.m.
Liberal
11:35 a.m.
Liberal
Ahmed Hussen Liberal York South—Weston, ON
Mr. Chair. I cede my time to the sponsor of the bill, Mr. Gagan Sikand.
11:35 a.m.
Liberal
Gagan Sikand Liberal Mississauga—Streetsville, ON
Thank you for being here today.
My first question is that seeing as the passives will be used merely to detect the presence of alcohol—
11:35 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Anthony Housefather
I'm sorry, but I have to ask you to speak into the microphone. I can't hear a word you're saying.
11:35 a.m.
Liberal
Gagan Sikand Liberal Mississauga—Streetsville, ON
I'm sorry.
Seeing as these passives will be used to detect the presence of alcohol and not necessarily ascertain the blood alcohol level, would you agree that the two devices could detect alcohol in a passive setting?
11:35 a.m.
Chair, Alcohol Test Committee, Canadian Society of Forensic Science
I absolutely agree that it's possible for devices to detect passive alcohol.
11:35 a.m.
Liberal
Gagan Sikand Liberal Mississauga—Streetsville, ON
Thank you.
Seeing as you agreed that officers could make mistakes using their senses, would you agree that this would be a useful tool to aid them?
11:35 a.m.
Chair, Alcohol Test Committee, Canadian Society of Forensic Science
Yes, it can be.
As I indicated earlier in my testimony, it is a useful tool as long as how they're doing it is properly controlled. There are a lot of variables involved, and I think they have to be very on point with the way they're performing this type of analysis for it to meet the muster of the courts.
11:35 a.m.
Liberal
Gagan Sikand Liberal Mississauga—Streetsville, ON
Okay, but do you agree that it would be a useful tool for them to have?
11:35 a.m.
Chair, Alcohol Test Committee, Canadian Society of Forensic Science
As I said in my testimony, there's no doubt that passive detection has been used and that it can be useful in detecting alcohol-impaired drivers.
11:35 a.m.
Liberal
Gagan Sikand Liberal Mississauga—Streetsville, ON
Thank you.
Seeing as other jurisdictions have given the passives a green light, if you will, do you think it would be worth studying them here in Canada?
11:35 a.m.
Chair, Alcohol Test Committee, Canadian Society of Forensic Science
Asking a scientist if something is worth studying is sort of like giving candy to a baby.
11:35 a.m.
Chair, Alcohol Test Committee, Canadian Society of Forensic Science
We always want to study things, but whether we have the time and resources to do it is where we have issues. Certainly we have very curious minds on my committee.
11:35 a.m.
Chair, Alcohol Test Committee, Canadian Society of Forensic Science
Well, if we have the time.
We currently have two approved instruments and one approved screening device still on our books that we're doing work on. As I say, it becomes increasingly difficult, given our schedules.
11:35 a.m.
Liberal
Gagan Sikand Liberal Mississauga—Streetsville, ON
This is just from me. Would you say our lab standards or processes are comparable to those of the United States or Australia—our systems and the way you do things?
11:35 a.m.
Chair, Alcohol Test Committee, Canadian Society of Forensic Science
I've always considered the Canadian system to be superior to any in the world, but I may be somewhat biased. My predecessors on this committee certainly have led the way through the years with developing a program in Canada that was seen as being world leading.