Justice Committee on Sept. 19th, 2017

Evidence of meeting #63 for Justice and Human Rights in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was alcohol.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

Bill C-46

Election of Vice-Chairs

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Patricia Kosseim Senior General Counsel and Director General, Legal Services, Policy, Research and Technology Analysis Branch, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada

Yvan Clermont Director, Canadian Centre for Justice Statistics , Statistics Canada

Samuel Perreault Analyst, Canadian Centre for Justice Statistics, Statistics Canada

Daniel Therrien Privacy Commissioner of Canada, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada

Sheri Arsenault Director, Alberta, Families For Justice

Scott Treasure President-Elect, Insurance Brokers Association of Canada

Peter Braid Chief Executive Officer, Insurance Brokers Association of Canada

Douglas Beirness Senior Policy Advisor, Subject Matter Expert Impaired Driving, Canadian Centre on Substance Use and Addiction

Pascal Lévesque President, Criminal Law Committee, Barreau du Québec

Benoît Gariépy Member, Criminal Law Committee, Barreau du Québec

Ana Victoria Aguerre Lawyer, Secretariat of the Order and Legal Affairs, Barreau du Québec

Clerk of the Committee Mrs. Julie Geoffrion

4 p.m.

NDP

Wayne Stetski NDP Kootenay—Columbia, BC

Have you looked at statistics from Colorado specifically? I met with the Canadian Nurses Association and was chatting with a nurse about her views on what this could mean in terms of our future. She has a friend who works in an emergency hospital in Colorado and says the number one thing in bringing patients in is related to marijuana use, either from accidents or from a combination of drugs that leads to paranoia. Have you looked at statistics there in terms of accident rates?

4:05 p.m.

Director, Canadian Centre for Justice Statistics , Statistics Canada

Yvan Clermont

No.

4:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Anthony Housefather

Thank you very much, Mr. Stetski.

Monsieur Ehsassi.

4:05 p.m.

Liberal

Ali Ehsassi Liberal Willowdale, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My first question is for you, Mr. Therrien. As you're probably aware, yesterday we heard from Professor Hogg. His conclusion yesterday was that random breath testing is a reasonable limitation on the privacy of an individual given the objective that is being pursued. Would you agree with that?

4:05 p.m.

Privacy Commissioner of Canada, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada

Daniel Therrien

Essentially, yes, with the following explanation. Our position is based on privacy principles, which are informed by the charter, so we're not doing, strictly speaking, a charter analysis. We're doing a privacy analysis. Is privacy impacted? Yes. Is the measure necessary and proportional, akin to a section 1 analysis under the charter, but not quite a section 1 analysis under the charter? Using similar methods but not exactly the same method, we essentially come to the same conclusion but that requires evidence. The government needs to demonstrate that its measure is for a compelling state objective. I don't think there's much question about that.

Is it necessary to come to these methods and are they proportional? That requires an analysis of random testing versus other potential alternatives. Whether other alternatives have been effective and whether this one would be more effective, we're not experts on the matter, but we've read the government's charter assessment, and the arguments and evidence presented seem reasonable. On that basis, we come to the view that, yes, the legislation strikes the appropriate balance from a privacy perspective.

4:05 p.m.

Liberal

Ali Ehsassi Liberal Willowdale, ON

Thank you for that.

We had the opportunity to hear from Robert Mann, from the Centre for Addiction and Mental Health. His testimony suggested that blood tests are the gold standard for drug testing. From your perspective, what would your thoughts be on blood testing in comparison to other types of testing that are available, given that blood testing, obviously, is more invasive?

4:05 p.m.

Privacy Commissioner of Canada, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada

Daniel Therrien

The way in which the bill before you is constructed, unless I'm mistaken, leads to blood testing. There's a breath test to start with, which leads eventually to better evidence of impaired driving or driving over a certain limit, which is blood testing, so blood testing would be clearly more invasive physically than a breath test. I'm not an expert, but I accept the view that it's more accurate in terms of showing the proportion of alcohol or drugs in one's body. But the law before you starts with breath testing and leads to blood testing for the actual evidence that the offence has been committed. We think that's appropriate.

4:05 p.m.

Liberal

Ali Ehsassi Liberal Willowdale, ON

Okay. Good to hear.

Now I would ask of Mr. Clermont a few questions.

Your slide deck is incredibly interesting. It raises a number of different questions.

The first question I had was on the chart at page 15, which is the police-reported drug impaired rates across the country. There is a huge discrepancy between central Canadian provinces and the territories. What would you attribute that to?

4:05 p.m.

Director, Canadian Centre for Justice Statistics , Statistics Canada

Yvan Clermont

This is very hard to say. We always observe a trend in crime in general with smaller being in the east of the country going toward the western provinces and also going north. This is a general trend we observe. The only difference here is that drug-impaired driving on slide 15 is highest in the Atlantic, and that doesn't follow the trend. We don't have any reasons why. It could be related to a number of factors. It could be related to police intervention in those provinces, but this is counter to the general trend of crime in general.