Justice Committee on May 25th, 2021

[Sherry Baker]

I'm not sure of the extent to which the federal government is recognizing it, but I think it is becoming more and more of an issue, especially with the indigenous and the immigrant populations. I think it is becoming a really important distinction that certainly we have embraced in B.C. in the work that we do, and we are open to providing the opportunity for any group that wishes to be looking at this issue from their own lens. We will support that, of course.

I'd like to also emphasize the importance of looking at what is causing the abuse. Why are the abusers abusing their older adults in their own families usually, or their community, and what is it about the community itself? I offered some possible areas of concern that the federal government can look at. It is cross-cultural. It doesn't seem to matter whether it's European, south Asian, Oriental or whomever it might be; every community has issues around elder abuse within their societies.

It has increased when society is suffering, as is happening with COVID or from downsizing and all of the other things that are happening within our economy. We find that people who are in those positions are more likely to thrash out at people whom they perceive to have more assets, more ability—

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

I have a point of order, Madam Chair.

The interpretation is not working.

[The Chair, Liberal, Iqra Khalid]

Thank you for pointing that out, Monsieur Fortin.

Mr. Clerk, can I ask if something is going on?

[The Clerk]

If you would like to resume the deliberations or say a few things, I would like to check, indeed, if interpretation is functioning.

[The Chair, Liberal, Iqra Khalid]

Just to prevent lack of communication, maybe we'll just pause as you check that. Thank you.

I have paused your time, Mr. Garrison, just so that you know.

[The Clerk]

The interpretation has resumed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Iqra Khalid]

Perfect.

Monsieur Fortin, is your interpretation now working?

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

It's working now, yes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Iqra Khalid]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Garrison, you can please go ahead.

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

We recognize that the majority of seniors do not live in long-term care homes, but the COVID crisis and the degree of isolation that some seniors face in long-term care homes certainly is problematic.

Maybe I'll direct this to Ms. Campbell.

In terms of the services you provide, do you often hear from seniors in long-term care homes? Do you believe that in long-term care homes there are sufficient staff available, like social workers, who seniors could reach out to locally if they are experiencing abuse?

[Marie-Noël Campbell]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Only 6% of calls come from people in long-term care or institutionalized care in general. We're not sure if that's because they are fewer issues that come with those who are in long-term care residences or if it's because we don't have the means to reach them sufficiently.

In terms of your question about whether they have enough time, no, I've heard during those sessions that they should normally receive about four hours, but I'm hearing that in assisted care there is less than one hour per week. Generally in long-term care homes, it is significantly less than that. It's two to three hours at best. I agree that there should be more staff. I believe money has been earmarked to assist with training new staff and to help with that.

The issue we have, when we hear about seniors reporting abuse, is that family members are afraid to report it. They are afraid of repercussions. Again, it would be helpful to have either mediators or more whistle-blower protection in those instances, as suggested by Graham Webb.

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC]

I'll end my questions there, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Iqra Khalid]

Thank you very much, Mr. Garrison.

You left a minute on the clock. If you don't mind, I'd like to oblige with a very quick question for Statistics Canada.

In the previous panel we heard from the Canadian Bar Association about the importance of enforcement, and not just of creating crimes in the Criminal Code with respect to elder abuse. I'm just wondering if there is a very targeted approach to collecting data with respect not just the crimes of which people are convicted, but also maybe that full range of crimes. Is there any way in which we could identify exactly how or where that enforcement is lacking?

[Kathy AuCoin]

That's a great question, Madam Chair.

I would suggest that a question for the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police could really focus on enforcement.

When we collect police-reported data, it's all lined up with the Criminal Code. We have full coverage with all police services across Canada. There is a coding manual that outlines what is being captured.

I did listen in to the previous witnesses. The link was made to family violence and 20 or 25 years ago with training of police officers and understanding the dynamics of family violence. With training, processes change over time, but how enforcement follows through would really be a Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police question.

[The Chair, Liberal, Iqra Khalid]

Thank you very much for that. I really appreciate it.

With that, I'd like to thank all of our witnesses for your excellent testimony today.

Thank you, members. I will see you on Thursday for committee deliberations on drafting instructions for our elder abuse study.

In the meantime, the meeting is adjourned.