Justice Committee on May 27th, 2024

[Mark Sandler]

It's a great question, and I thank you for it.

For me, there's a multifactor answer to it.

The first is that I think people genuinely don't understand anti-Semitism. I think with the lack of understanding of anti-Semitism comes a lack of understanding of where the boundaries have been crossed and a criminal offence has been committed.

For me, it's back to the training and education that we've talked about. It's back to having dedicated prosecutors who are dealing with these issues every day. It's back to having a national strategy so that people understand what this is all about.

Part of it, unfortunately, is latent anti-Semitism. I'm not suggesting that I would lightly attribute decisions on not to prosecute to someone being anti-Semitic, because I think ignorance is the bigger problem here when it comes to prosecutions and police, but that definitely does exist.

The third thing that I think is of critical importance is that freedom of speech is now being weaponized and deliberately distorted in a way that inhibits prosecution. For example, when I say here that the celebration of barbarity by Hamas is not protected speech or when I say here that “by any means necessary” is not protected speech, then I will be accused of Islamophobia. I will be accused of propagating hatred, completely misunderstanding or distorting where those boundaries are.

As I said, I've worked with members of the Muslim community. I've been involved in Muslim-Jewish dialogue. That distortion is contributing to the inhibition to prosecute legitimate cases.

[The Chair, Liberal, Lena Metlege Diab]

Thank you very much to our witnesses.

As the chair, I have one quick question for the police.

You talked in your recommendation about hate crime. The online harms act that's been introduced, Bill C-63, attempts to enshrine the definition of hatred in the Criminal Code. I'd like to know if you support that or if you have any recommendations on it.

Before you answer that, I will say to all our witnesses, please submit anything in writing that you feel that you did not get a chance to get out here this morning.

We have 30 seconds for to the police specifically on the hate crime definition.

[D/Chief Robert Johnson]

I've recently reviewed Bill C-63, the online harms act, and I do support it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Lena Metlege Diab]

Okay, thank you very much.

We will now say thank you for coming this morning.

We will now go to the second panel.

I've just been informed by the clerk that we are expecting votes. I will ask, when the time comes for unanimous consent, to continue with the second panel until it is time to vote.

You folks can think about that and let me know if you are willing to give consent.

With that, I will suspend for a few minutes to ensure that the next witnesses are ready.

[The Chair, Liberal, Lena Metlege Diab]

Welcome back to our meeting.

I want to welcome our witnesses for the second panel.

We have witnesses by video conference and witnesses here in the room.

Again, I'll remind you to please wait until I recognize you by name before speaking, and that all comments are to be addressed through the chair.

Witnesses will have five minutes each. We have four witnesses on the second panel.

We will start with Dr. Graham Carr, president and vice-chancellor of Concordia University, for the first five minutes, please.

[Dr. Graham Carr, President and Vice-Chancellor, Concordia University]

Madam Chair and members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to speak on behalf of Concordia University.

Concordia has 50,000 students and staff, and our downtown campus is on two of the busiest streets in Montreal.

We welcome students from all over the world. This diversity is an asset for us. We are proud of our Jewish community, which has shaped Concordia's identity and achievements throughout its history. We are also proud of our Palestinian, Arab and Muslim communities. They also contribute to Concordia's character and its many successes.

The horrific attacks by Hamas on Israel and the subsequent war in Gaza have exposed divisions in Canadian society, which are also reflected at Concordia. Many members of our community have suffered profound anguish, trauma and loss. In circumstances like these, our first responsibility is to show empathy and support for all, but given the level of fear and anger the conflict is causing, empathy and compassion can only accomplish so much.

I don't pretend to have perfect answers or actions to share with you. Everyone is struggling with the polarized environment and the complexity of the challenges we face. What I can say categorically is that there's no place for hate at Concordia. We're all disgusted by the rise of anti-Semitism, the spread of Islamophobia and the proliferation of identity-based hatred and violence.

Canadian universities embody academic freedom, freedom of expression and freedom of assembly. They should be places of civil and evidence-informed reflection and debate. They also need to be places where people—above all, our students—feel safe and where everyone can participate in campus life without fear of intimidation and harassment.

Sadly, the lived experience of some members of our community has been tarnished by real and perceived acts of contempt, intolerance and hate. A stark example occurred on November 8, when there was an altercation between students and external individuals in one of our buildings downtown. Campus safety personnel tried to defuse the situation, but ultimately had to call the police. Two individuals were arrested. Disciplinary processes followed and continue even now.

That incident gave Concordia a black eye. It raised legitimate questions about how we both uphold our values and ensure a safe environment for everyone.

Since then, we have adapted and expanded our approach to dialogue and conflict resolution. We work with student groups on a regular basis. We have met with our union leaders. We have refused or cancelled certain events that we considered likely to lead to a climate of intimidation. These events were planned by both pro-Palestinian and pro-Israeli organizations. I have also spoken directly to the community on several occasions and, each time, I have emphasized our collective role in finding solutions.

Have our responses to every situation been perfect? No, but our actions have been rooted in careful consideration and an attempt to balance the different rights at play, and our community has largely responded in kind.

Following the November incident, both pro-Israel and pro-Palestinian groups regularly held information tables and events throughout the remainder of the academic year. On one occasion in January, those tables were next to each other. Were we nervous about that event? Yes, but we had all learned from the bad experience in November. The mood was civil. There were no incidents.

However, in March, there was a disgraceful attack by a small number of individuals on the Hillel club. Campus safety intervened quickly, but it was another painful event for our community.

I share these examples, both positive and negative, to be transparent. Yes, tensions exist at Concordia, but there has also been a remarkable calm. This does not mean all is well. That's why our commitment to combatting anti-Semitism and all forms of hate is ongoing.

In April, we launched a task force against racism and identity-based violence, involving faculty, staff, students and alumni. Our goal is to develop actionable recommendations to improve policies, training and complaint processes.

At Concordia, we will continue to make every effort to ensure everyone can participate fully, openly and, yes, proudly in our campus life.

[The Chair, Liberal, Lena Metlege Diab]

Dr. Carr, thank you very much. We will come back to you in the questioning.

We will now go to Professor Deep Saini, McGill University president and vice-chancellor, for five minutes.

[Professor Deep Saini, President and Vice-Chancellor, McGill University]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I thank the members of the committee.

I would like to begin by commending this committee for taking on this important study. As we have been experiencing and have heard from your recent hearings, anti-Semitism is real. It is happening across our country, and we all have a role to play in confronting it.

The conflict in the Middle East has sparked intense debate and protests on Canadian campuses. We are committed to freedom of expression, association and peaceful protest. These are basic democratic rights.

Let me be very clear. We do not tolerate behaviours that violate university policies or the law. The safety and well-being of McGill students, staff and faculty remain our top priority.

If protests concern freedom of expression and assembly, it is our responsibility to ensure that they do not cross lines. They have to abide by the law and by the university's policies.

So as soon as the situation on our campus started to worsen, we took action.

Our team has been on the front line, following McGill's operating procedures to de-escalate matters and request police intervention whenever the de-escalation was unsuccessful.

We will never hesitate to take the necessary steps to maintain an environment where everyone's rights are respected.

My commitment to ensuring that the Jewish members of our campus community feel welcomed and supported at McGill is unwavering.

Our colleagues and students felt intimidated by what happened on campuses across the country.

This is simply unacceptable.

Over the years, McGill has been working in close partnership with Jewish students, staff, faculty, alumni and external community members to put in place measures to promote inclusion and provide avenues and resources to support the community.

Less than two years ago, we developed McGill's initiative against Islamophobia and anti-Semitism. This was done through meaningful consultations with McGill's Jewish and Muslim communities over several months. This resulted in 21 action items, all of which are either fully implemented or are in the process of being implemented. The aim is to help address, prevent and raise awareness on anti-Semitism and Islamophobia.

We created a Jewish student affairs liaison, providing the Jewish community at McGill with a direct channel to the university's senior administration to request support, report incidents or provide resources.

We have established specialized support services for Jewish students, as well as workshops for senior staff to enable them to support their colleagues and students and to maintain an environment that fosters respectful dialogue and an inclusive work and learning environment.

We know there is more to do.

While our EDI policies are established in accordance with the laws of Quebec and Canada, we are actively reviewing our internal mechanisms to provide avenues and support for our students and colleagues, including members of the Jewish and other targeted communities that face harassment and intimidation.

Just a few months ago, we launched a new reporting portal to ensure any member of the McGill community can anonymously and safely report incidents of harassment, intimidation and doxing.

Now, the protesters setting up encampments and interfering with university activities is a new challenge. It is unacceptable to intimidate staff, students or faculty. Freedom of expression must be exercised with respect. In this regard, we've seen behaviours that have repeatedly crossed the line and breached our policies. That's why we followed our internal protocols to address the matter. We also engaged legal counsel to pursue court-ordered injunctions, and we have requested police intervention and assistance.

We will continue to do whatever it takes to ensure the well-being of our students, staff and teachers. It is imperative that the Jewish community feel safe and included on our campuses.

Let me finish by again thanking the committee for initiating this important dialogue.

I would be very pleased to take your questions.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Lena Metlege Diab]

Thank you.

I now give the floor to Benoit‑Antoine Bacon, from the University of British Columbia.

[Dr. Benoit-Antoine Bacon, President and Vice-Chancellor, University of British Columbia]

Good afternoon, everyone.

Thank you for the opportunity to speak before the committee today.

The issue of anti-Semitism is so important, and this discussion is timely.

I began my term as president of UBC on November 1, 2023, three weeks afer the tragic and horrific events of October 7. My first message to the university community five days later was on the conflict in Israel, and we have remained vigilant and engaged since.

Today, I state unequivocally that anti-Semitism is completely unacceptable at UBC and anywhere, and I will speak to our commitments and actions in support of this.

I also refer you to my letter of January 19, 2024, to MP Housefather and others, in response to the legitimate questions they raised about anti-Semitism at universities.

We are facing difficult and distressing times around the world. We see individuals and communities deeply affected by the war and violence in Israel and Gaza.

UBC is part of a global society with a diverse community of almost 90,000 people. Every global event affects some members of our community. They evoke trauma, loss and a wide range of complex emotions.

I am grateful that the overwhelming majority of our community—no, not everyone, sadly—has remained respectful and compassionate towards one another as the conflict has unfolded.

Universities are also places of debate, sometimes protests, often sparked by global events. Recently, UBC students began to take part in a broader movement that started in the United States and has now spread to Canada and all around the world. It's a very challenging situation.

UBC supports freedom of expression and the right to demonstrate. However, we do not condone behaviours that affect the safety and security of our university community or threaten or interfere with our operations.

We are doing all we can. It's extremely challenging. It's a truly difficult situation, but let me assure everyone that anti-Semitism and any form of harassment and discrimination have no place at UBC.

We have a responsibility and a shared obligation to create a learning and working environment where divergent and conflicting viewpoints can peacefully coexist. This is our mission.

There are a number of policies and measures that UBC has put in place to support and strengthen a safe and respectful environment.

First and foremost is UBC’s discrimination policy, which governs our approach to discrimination on the basis of religion, race or place of origin, and is implemented in a manner consistent with how B.C.’s courts and human rights tribunal implement B.C.’s human rights code.

The university reviews all reported incidents of discrimination. Complaints of criminal hate speech can be directed to the RCMP for criminal investigation and potential prosecution. The UBC student code of conduct sets out the standards that are expected of students and holds individuals and groups responsible for the consequences of their actions. Where a breach of these codes occurs, there's a range of potential disciplinary outcomes.

Over the past year, we have also enhanced campus security. We conduct ongoing risk assessments and situational reports to make sure we take appropriate measures to keep everyone in our community safe.

Over the months, I've met with Jewish students, faculty members and community members, as has my senior administration, to understand their concerns and consider how the university can best address them.

We have engaged over that time with Hillel BC, which is on campus, the Jewish Federation of Greater Vancouver, the Centre for Israel and Jewish Affairs, the special envoy on preserving Holocaust remembrance and combatting anti-Semitism, the Jewish Faculty Network, the Jewish Medical Association of BC, and the Jewish Academic Alliance of British Columbia.

We also work closely with UBC student organizations to emphasize that our shared mission must include the protection of space for respectful debate and compassionate dialogue. It's not easy.

UBC also provides community members with a range of supports, including academic and workplace accommodations, emergency funds, safety planning and professional support services, including counselling.

The university also works very closely with Hillel BC and with individual Jewish students to address concerns that are raised and through initiatives to improve the experience of Jewish students on campus. This, of course, includes responding to reported incidents of anti-Semitism.

We have also increased efforts to disseminate resources for faculty and staff on fostering respect, inclusion, safety and critical constructive dialogue in the classroom and workplace.

Everybody, this is a challenging time globally, and we fully recognize the concerns around anti-Semitism that the committee is studying. It was important for me to be here.

Anti-Semitism has a long and terrible history, and we must always remain vigilant. Again, anti-Semitism has no place at UBC. It's our collective responsibility to do better and to find solutions.

Thank you very much.

Thank you for the opportunity to speak today.

[The Chair, Liberal, Lena Metlege Diab]

Thank you.

We will now go to the president of the University of Toronto, Professor Meric Gertler, please.

[Professor Meric Gertler, President, University of Toronto]

Thank you, Madam Chair, for this opportunity to meet with you and your committee. I apologize for not being there in person, but I am required to be in Toronto today.

Given the focus of your deliberations, my remarks will outline what the University of Toronto is doing to combat anti-Semitism. However, I realize there are other matters currently unfolding on the U of T campus that may be of interest to you, and I'm happy to discuss those in the question period.

It is painful but necessary to recognize that anti-Semitism has been a scourge in our society for generations, if not centuries. It's particularly painful for me, as president of the University of Toronto, to acknowledge our role in this sorry history.

Even more discouraging is the fact that anti-Semitic incidents and hate-based crimes are on the rise in Canada, and that anti-Semitism has been a growing presence recently in our university. In recognition of this, the University of Toronto has taken a comprehensive set of actions to combat anti-Semitism and ensure our campuses are places where Jewish members of our community feel safe, included and respected.

This work is rooted in our long-standing opposition to all forms of racism and discrimination, but we have intensified our efforts since October 7. Let me describe several actions we have taken.

In 2020, we convened an anti-Semitism working group consisting of colleagues with specialized expertise to examine the challenge of anti-Semitism. We accepted all recommendations from the working group's report.

The university's equity office has broadened its mandate explicitly to recognize anti-Semitism as a form of discrimination requiring concerted action. We require all equity staff at the university to undergo anti-Semitism training. We're working to improve the process of reporting hate-related incidents by enhancing clarity, accountability and timeliness of response, when such incidents are reported.

We've appointed our first ever assistant director for faith and anti-racism to strengthen our ability to combat anti-Semitism and other forms of discrimination. She has a mandate to improve our processes for responding to such incidents, to foster dialogue, mutual understanding and respect, and to advance other measures to combat anti-Semitism.

Our chief legal officer is helping leaders across the university to understand the ambit and limits to freedom of speech. The identification of hate speech is set forth in Canadian jurisprudence and our collective obligations under university and government statutes, regulations, codes and policies.

In addition, in 2022, the Temerty faculty of medicine and leaders of our affiliated hospitals apologized for their practice of imposing quotas for Jewish medical students and hospital trainees from the 1940s to the 1960s, sponsoring a research project that shed light on this shameful historical practice. The faculty of medicine introduced a new unit on anti-Semitism and anti-racism as part of its professional training and now consults regularly with Jewish learners to ensure they are properly supported.

Since October 7, my senior team has met multiple times with Jewish faculty, staff and students to hear their concerns, direct them to helpful resources and seek their advice on how we can better support them. We ensure that student organizations operate in an open, accessible and democratic manner. Our policy has been put to the test and has proven effective in holding student organizations to account.

In January, we announced a new lab for the study of global anti-Semitism at the Anne Tanenbaum Centre for Jewish Studies. Its inaugural director is Ron Levi, a distinguished professor at the Munk School of Global Affairs and Public Policy. We also announced a new university-wide initiative to promote civil discourse on our campuses. It's led by provostial adviser Randy Boyagoda.

Our efforts to combat anti-Semitism are comprehensive and multifaceted. Are they enough? Until there are no further instances of anti-Semitism, the answer for us and for society at large must be no.

However, I hope you will acknowledge the diligent efforts the University of Toronto has made to address this scourge and to atone for its role in the past, while acknowledging the work that remains to be done.

Ultimately, we believe the most effective way to respond to this challenge is to focus on our core mission of education and research.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Lena Metlege Diab]

Thank you very much.

Colleagues, the bells have started. It looks like there are 28 minutes left until the vote. Can I ask for unanimous consent to continue for 15 minutes, to give people 10 minutes to go to the vote?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Lena Metlege Diab]

Okay.

We will start the first six minutes with MP Lantsman.

[Melissa Lantsman, Conservative, Thornhill, ON]

Thank you.

Thanks for joining us at committee today.

Throughout all of your statements, you've said things like a university is no place for hate, there's zero tolerance and it's unacceptable.

It has absolutely become a place for hate. You can see that in the testimony from students, faculty and anybody who has dealt with the administration. It has absolutely become a tolerant place for that hate. It has absolutely become acceptable on campuses and in the front courtyards.

President Gertler, it's nice to see you in this environment.

Have you gone to the encampment?

[Prof. Meric Gertler]

I have. It's right outside my window, so I see it frequently.

[Melissa Lantsman, Conservative, Thornhill, ON]

Have you verified that all of the people who are there protesting—and I have a reason for this question—are part of the university community as student, faculty or administration?

[Prof. Meric Gertler]

We know many of our students are there. We know they are visited by faculty, but we also believe there are people from outside the university community who are present in the encampment at various different times.

[Melissa Lantsman, Conservative, Thornhill, ON]

The reason I bring this up is that U of T has over 60,000 students. Let's say there are 300 people at those encampments. The university is now negotiating with less than half a per cent of potential students—or not even students—who are, frankly, holding the university hostage in its decisions on how it goes about its business.

What do you say to those watching, the faculty, the alumni and the parents who are deciding where their kids might want to go to school? What do you say to those people who see 300 people holding the university to account for a student body of 60,000?

[Prof. Meric Gertler]

Actually, our student body is closer to 97,000. Yes, it's grown a bit since your time on our campus.

I should say, through the chair, that we have been meeting with student representatives in our discussions about how to end the encampment peacefully. They claim to represent all of the interests within the encampment. At this point, we must take that statement at face value.

I can assure you, though, that I have gone public as recently as late last week with a set of proposals that the university has been putting across the table to the students. We have not compromised on the issues that are clearly of importance to us. We have a very clearly articulated policy for considering divestment proposals, which we have used in the past. We are saying to the protest group that the policy is there. It lays out the steps and they are free to use it.

We hope they will, because that is the only way we can actually address this.

[Melissa Lantsman, Conservative, Thornhill, ON]

I think the point is that you are engaging in a negotiation with the 300 people who have illegally set up camp on the front lawn. Do you believe the university is adequately enforcing its code of conduct?

I'll show you what's at the front of the encampment. That's a symbol that glorifies terrorism by Hamas. I think you've probably seen this in the past. You've probably seen it in various places around campus, but that sits at the front of the encampment.

Don't you think the university's code of conduct would suggest that something like this is against the code of conduct?

[Prof. Meric Gertler]

Madam Chair, in responding to the member's question, first of all, we asked the student organizers of the encampment to remove signage and language that is offensive. They have complied on occasion, but not in every instance.

In other instances, we have reported hateful acts and speech to the Toronto Police Service. You heard from the deputy chief in the previous hour. Something like 38 incidents have been reported as of the end of last week, half a dozen of which we believe may qualify as hate speech or hateful acts. We are working closely with TPS to help them investigate these incidents. As you heard from the deputy chief, they are indeed taking these allegations very seriously.

[Melissa Lantsman, Conservative, Thornhill, ON]

President Gertler, have any students been suspended or expelled for any of these actions?

[Prof. Meric Gertler]

We have indeed had violations of our code of conduct, which have resulted in suspension and, on occasion, expulsion. Some of these have been related to recent actions and the protests around the conflict in the Middle East, so the answer is yes.