Justice Committee on Oct. 30th, 2025

[Andrew Lawton, Conservative, Elgin—St. Thomas—London South, ON]

If someone were to go a gathering in a Canadian street and say that we should have another October 7, would that be an incitement to violence? Would that be something that you believe should be criminal?

[Timothy McSorley]

A call to again engage in violent activity is clearly a call to violence, and it would be criminalized.

[Andrew Lawton, Conservative, Elgin—St. Thomas—London South, ON]

I'm glad that we got eventually to your position that this was terrorism.

Thank you very much, Mr. McSorley.

In the limited time I have left, I'd like to ask you a question or two, Deputy Chief, because we have seen the definitional changes in Bill C‑9.

Are there potential hate charges that the Edmonton Police Service has not laid in the last year or two years that you are aware of that would have been laid if Bill C‑9 had been in place?

[Nicole Chapdelaine]

I would probably say yes, there probably would have been, and I think part of the problem is that we've gone with mischief charges, because there wasn't an actual charge for that particular charge. I think that we're going to see some of those mischief charges coming up, because we would have felt that we could have advanced with a hate crime charge, and it just didn't exist with that definition.

[Andrew Lawton, Conservative, Elgin—St. Thomas—London South, ON]

There was a community in my riding where someone was charged under section 319 with hate, and their display involved a swastika mowed into their lawn.

Do you agree that hate symbols can be a part of your investigation and your decision to lay a charge under the current hate laws?

[Nicole Chapdelaine]

I don't think it's as clear as we'd like it to be.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Miller]

Thank you, Deputy Chief.

Thank you, Mr. Lawton.

Ms. Dhillon, to close us off, you have five minutes.

[Anju Dhillon, Liberal, Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'm going to share my time with MP Housefather.

My questions for the moment are with Deputy Chief Chapdelaine.

When hate crimes go unaddressed or delayed, it can leave victims feeling unheard. How important is it that legislation like Bill C‑9 gives police the tools to act quickly and consistently across the country?

[Nicole Chapdelaine]

I think it's very important. I don't think there's any other way to say it. It's very important, because the response that we give our communities is something that we are measured on every day.

[Anju Dhillon, Liberal, Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC]

Police officers are the first point of contact for victims of hate. How would having a clear definition and stronger provisions under Bill C‑9 help improve confidence in reporting these incidents?

[Nicole Chapdelaine]

Again, I think it's like you say. We have to build trust with our marginalized communities and provide accessible reporting for these kinds of events. I think having this additional legislation available to us continues to help us build that trust with our communities in regard to our ability to respond to their needs.

[Anju Dhillon, Liberal, Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC]

In the last years or even the recent past, have you seen a big increase in hate-motivated crimes?

[Nicole Chapdelaine]

I have the numbers in front of me here, I can say that we have witnessed a troubling increase in Edmonton and across Canada in hate incidents. In 2025, in Edmonton hate incidents rose to 125 to date, up from 91 in the same period in 2024. Hate crimes have slightly decreased, but the rise in incidents reflect both an increase in public awareness and growing concern within our communities.

[Anju Dhillon, Liberal, Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC]

Public awareness has helped to have a little bit of an impact on hate crime.

[Nicole Chapdelaine]

Correct.

The way we work with our community is we try to work with them to bridge those barriers for them to report and have trust in our organization to take these issues seriously. As with anything we do, it will increase reporting but I think that helps us better understand what we're dealing with in our community.

[Anju Dhillon, Liberal, Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC]

I want to thank you for working so empathetically and sympathetically with those who are victims of hate-motivated crimes. It's very comforting to see police officers such as yourself. I have the utmost gratitude and appreciation for you. Thank you for coming to committee today.

I will give my time to MP Housefather.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Thank you, MP Dhillon.

Mr. McSorley, in October 2024, Samidoun was listed as a terrorist entity.

Do you agree that Samidoun should have been listed as a terrorist entity?

[Timothy McSorley]

As I mentioned before, we don't take a position on whether or not.... We haven't examined every single organization that's listed on the terrorist entities list. Our concern overall—

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

But some of the organizations you—

[Timothy McSorley]

—is the process of listing Samidoun.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Some of the organizations you have listed on the list of organizations that you're here representing have partnered with Samidoun in creating events, including Independent Jewish Voices, for example.

[Timothy McSorley]

Our members are able to engage in their own activities. We don't take a position on what activities they specifically have taken.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

When Charlotte Kates, the head of Samidoun, led a cheer of “Long live October 7” and praised Hamas, would that be something that you think is reasonable to do in Canada?

[Timothy McSorley]

Personally, I don't believe in any calls to violence. I would have trouble with that particular chant.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

What about praising Hamas at a public rally?