Evidence of meeting #15 for Justice and Human Rights in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was c-14.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Wade Chang Liberal Burnaby Central, BC
Thanks.
Minister, B.C. Attorney General Niki Sharma has stated that what happened to Bailey McCourt “should never happen again”, and that she's hopeful that these bail reforms will prevent another tragedy like hers. Can you please explain how Bill C-14 will better protect victims of intimate partner violence before a situation escalates to that point?
Liberal
Sean Fraser Liberal Central Nova, NS
Yes. Look, this was a tragedy, and sadly a preventable tragedy. I've had the opportunity to meet family members of Bailey McCourt. This is a cross-partisan issue of concern.
I should point to not only Attorney General Sharma's feedback. As I mentioned, she's uniquely responsible for us making the decision to include reforms around refusing bail post-conviction, pre-sentence, as well as changes to the law that would create a reverse onus for cases of assault involving choking or strangulation.
Frank Caputo, our colleague with the Conservative Party, has been doing really good work and has engaged routinely with me in a collaborative way to find a path forward so that we could support a private member's bill with potential amendments that would achieve a greater degree of protection for crimes in an intimate partner violence context. We've seen our colleague Steve Fuhr, who was actually the first person to raise the case of Bailey McCourt with me as a pressing priority for the community that he calls home, with advocacy for similar measures touching on those that are in Frank's bill and that AG Sharma has put forward.
That level of engagement has led us to include certain measures not only in Bill C-14 but also in a private member's bill that I expect will see some amendments and hopefully attract the support of all parties in the committee, as it did in the House of Commons.
Bloc
Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Minister, welcome to the committee.
Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for being with us.
The introduction of Bill C‑14 has, of course, been met with positive reactions from most police associations. It also raised some questions or criticisms from certain civil rights associations and defence lawyers.
Can you tell me who exactly was consulted before Bill C‑14 was adopted? Which groups were consulted?
Liberal
Sean Fraser Liberal Central Nova, NS
I won't be able to give you a complete list in a few minutes or from memory. If it's something you'd like to discuss off-line afterwards—
Liberal
Sean Fraser Liberal Central Nova, NS
I've had conversations with police organizations in provinces, territories and municipalities, as well as national organizations and organizations that promote the public interest on a range of topics.
Excuse the quality of my French.
There were a number of different groups that I had the opportunity to meet with, and I'd be happy to provide a list of engagements if that's useful.
Bloc
Liberal
Sean Fraser Liberal Central Nova, NS
Just a moment.
I'm trying to go from memory. There were many dozens of groups that I had.... I'm trying to remember which—
Bloc
Owen Ripley Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Policy Sector, Department of Justice
The minister had the opportunity to participate in a round table with representatives of the Uniform Law Conference of Canada, or ULCC. That conference is held every year with—
Bloc
Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC
Were consultations held to seek the opinion of the bar's leadership?
Liberal
Sean Fraser Liberal Central Nova, NS
It's hard to say. When I have meetings, it's not always with a specific group. Sometimes organizations are involved in the conversation in a different space.
I'm trying go from memory with round tables with 10 or 20 groups.
Bloc
Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC
Thank you, Minister.
According to experts who have appeared before the committee on various occasions—I unfortunately no longer have the figures at hand—more than 70% of inmates in provincial prisons are there on remand. Those people have not been sentenced, and they have not been found guilty. They're awaiting trial.
Again, that isn't marginal. That's about three-quarters, if not more, of inmates.
I would like to know if you are aware of that statistic and what you think about it.
Liberal
Sean Fraser Liberal Central Nova, NS
This is an important issue. This problem in the justice system can be seen across the country, not just in Quebec.
Here's one way to address it. First, rules could be created to promote public safety. Investments in the justice system could also be adjusted to address—
Bloc
Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC
Aren't there already too many prisoners in our prisons, even before they're convicted?
Don't you think our prisons should be used mainly to detain people who have been convicted, at the very least?
Liberal
Sean Fraser Liberal Central Nova, NS
We agree.
I'm going to continue in English, because it's difficult for me to express myself properly in French.
My starting point is that we have to have the right framework to promote public safety. The answer to our process challenges is not to weaken the criminal laws that we have, but to have the levels of government that are responsible for different aspects of the system make the investments necessary to keep up with the demands.
The changes we're making in this law come uniquely from requests that have arrived from provincial governments, which are being excellent partners and want to make the investments necessary. Sometimes that will include resources of the federal government with additional appointments to the superior courts, and most often that includes investments from the provincial system, but I just wouldn't accept that the right solution is to weaken the law in order to solve that issue.
Bloc
Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC
Thank you.
I'm sorry to rush you, Minister, but you know that our time is limited.
The experts also tell us that they don't really have any data or statistics on the number of repeat offences or on rehabilitation. There also isn't any data on whether people held in remand are going to reoffend before or after being sentenced. Those statistics don't seem to exist, even though they have been recommended by a number of experts.
Is your department doing anything right now to try setting up a database to collect that data and use it to improve the work with the prison system?
Liberal
Sean Fraser Liberal Central Nova, NS
I think it's a good idea to work with the justice systems in each province. You're right. It's a problem when the data doesn't exist. However, there are a few municipalities that are able to get the information. It should be noted that the data varies from province to province.
I think it would be a good opportunity for this committee to make recommendations that improve co-operation between the provinces and identify the federal government's role.
I think data collection, in terms of what we collect, as well as in terms of uniformity and best practices, would be a huge opportunity to improve the quality of the decisions that we can make.
Bloc
Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC
I have a few seconds left.
Do you have any ideas about investments that can be made in the provinces or possible money transfers to improve prisoner rehabilitation and limit recidivism?
Is anything under way?
Liberal
Sean Fraser Liberal Central Nova, NS
In the seconds that I think we have remaining.... Maybe we should have a deeper conversation about this.
Mr. Chair, are we out of time?
Liberal
Sean Fraser Liberal Central Nova, NS
Let's discuss this off-line, perhaps, to improve the situation. I think there are areas for collaboration.
