Evidence of meeting #40 for Medical Assistance in Dying in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was camh.
A video is available from Parliament.
8:25 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Edmonton, AB
I just would like to get that clarified, and leave it at that.
8:25 p.m.
Liberal
James Maloney Liberal Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON
I'll only add that this is the first time this part of discussion is taking place in public.
November 28th, 2023 / 8:25 p.m.
Liberal
The Joint Chair Liberal René Arseneault
Thank you.
I agree with Mr. Maloney that we should discuss this later, when we get to committee business.
If we must discuss it now, though, I'd like an explanation as to how a brief differs from a letter, an email or an opinion. If we are setting the record straight, I'd like to know what counts as a brief versus a simple email.
8:25 p.m.
Conservative
8:25 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Edmonton, AB
—I don't want to get into a big debate about it here. I just want it for the record, because there was some uncertainty about how many—
8:25 p.m.
Liberal
James Maloney Liberal Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON
I'm sorry. I'm going to interrupt. I apologize, Mr. Cooper.
First of all, we should probably excuse the witness, unless he's interested in hearing this discussion.
8:25 p.m.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Shelby Kramp-Neuman
At this point, I believe we shall.
Dr. Gaind, if you'd like to excuse yourself, thank you very much for your testimony, and to all the witnesses who are online, thank you very much for your thoughtful testimony as well.
We'll move on to the goings-on of the committee business. Thank you.
8:25 p.m.
Chief, Department of Psychiatry, Sunnybrook Health Sciences Centre, As an Individual
Thank you for having us.
8:25 p.m.
Liberal
James Maloney Liberal Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON
My only point is that we're having a discussion half behind the curtain and half out, but it's the same discussion. I think that creates a very awkward circumstance for everybody on this committee.
For the sake of being precautious and erring on the side of not saying something that we shouldn't say in public, we should have a discussion in camera and then, if necessary, carry it on after. That's my only point, really.
8:25 p.m.
Conservative
8:25 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Edmonton, AB
In short, my understanding, for the public record, is that there have been more than 900 submissions. None of those will be used as part of the body of evidence, because they will not be translated on time. I think it underscores a simple point: We're not ready.
The second question I have, based upon something that was part of the public record, is in respect of a motion the committee adopted when we last met compelling CAMAP to provide module 7 relating to mental illness immediately—immediately means immediately.
8:25 p.m.
Senator, Nova Scotia, ISG
Thank you very much.
Since we're having this discussion, honourable colleagues, Mr. Cooper is erroneous in saying that the number of submissions we received proves that we're not ready. That's his own statement. I don't think he's ever even seen them, so how he could make that comment is beyond me. Also, as Mr. Arseneault has said, there could be spurious...all sorts of emails sitting in there that are not briefs.
The second thing is on this issue of the training program. Let's be very clear that the written module is not the training program. It's not even the module. The modules are meant to be applied with an expert trainer. They include case-by-case discussion back and forth. I think—
8:30 p.m.
Liberal
James Maloney Liberal Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON
I'm sorry but I'm going to interrupt, Senator Kutcher, on the same point that I interrupted Mr. Cooper about, and it's a point of order. I think it's a legitimate one. You can disagree with me if you so choose. We are treading into a territory where we're discussing things and we're carrying on conversations about things that took place in a setting that was in camera. We can't carry on the same conversation in public that we had in camera, and that's what we're trying to do. I think if we go in camera we can resolve all of these issues very quickly and agree on them frankly. We have to err on the side of caution, Senator Kutcher. We're being forced into this discussion, and we don't want to be, and I think it's unnecessary.
8:30 p.m.
The Joint Chair Hon. Yonah Martin
Mr. Maloney, that's agreed, so we will suspend for a moment to allow our colleagues online to get onto a new link.
[Proceedings continue in camera]