National Defence Committee on Feb. 22nd, 2007

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, John Cannis]

I would like to call this meeting to order.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted Wednesday, December 13, 2006, we are carrying out our study on the procurement process, including the tendering process and the establishment of capability requirements.

I'd like to begin by welcoming the guests we have with us today. There are two sections to our meeting this morning, one from nine to ten and the other from ten to eleven, so we have to be a little bit strict again with time. The chair has done a tremendous job so far.

Go ahead, Monsieur Coderre.

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Of course we want to hear from our witnesses and we do not want to waste any time, but just before we begin, I would like to introduce a motion. Given that we are moving ahead quickly in this process and that in my opinion many questions remain unanswered, I would like to introduce a motion calling for the Auditor General to appear before us, so that she may give her opinion as to the procurement process, specifically with respect to the ACAN, the Advance Contract Award Notice, and on other issues.

So I'm introducing a very simple motion asking that we may call the Auditor General to appear before our Standing Committee on National Defence.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, John Cannis]

Ms. Gallant, do you have a comment?

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

I believe it is customary in this committee to have 48 hours' notice. I did not receive any notice of motion.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, John Cannis]

I have been advised by the clerk that based on the study we are doing, it is related, and based on the guidelines, it is permitted. I could have the clerk pass this around now or later, but according to the guidelines it is permitted to be accepted.

Go ahead, Mr. Hiebert.

[Russ Hiebert, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC]

Are you expecting the committee to make a decision at this moment, or will there be further debate later on?

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, John Cannis]

Normal rules ask that once a motion is accepted based on the rules, we have to make a decision on it.

We could deal with this later, at the end of the committee meeting and with the benefit of having our witnesses here, or we could deal with it right now.

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

Mr. Chair, I don't believe we should have a debate on that. Is the government telling us that it's against having the Auditor General come here to give her view on procurement? We should just call the question and vote directly on it. It's another important witness, and we don't have to lose time on that.

She is a highly qualified person with great integrity, who will help us shed light on this process. I can't see why we would have a debate, or a discussion on this type of witness. She is an officer of Parliament. So I would simply ask for the vote, Mr. Chairman, so that the Auditor General could meet with us. I don't think we need a debate on this subject.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, John Cannis]

It seems as though we are in debate.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Lévis—Bellechasse, QC]

Mr. Chairman, my colleague's motion seems interesting. However, there's one thing I'd like to know. We did get an opportunity to submit a list of witnesses at the beginning of our study. I would like to understand why he wants to hear from the Auditor General now rather than at some other time.

Since our witnesses are here, perhaps we could give Mr. Coderre the opportunity to better explain his motion once we have heard from the witnesses, out of respect for the process we've established.

[An hon. member]

I call for the vote.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, John Cannis]

Mr. McGuire is next.

[Joe McGuire, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

This request does not preclude getting witnesses as we go along. The chair and the clerk said at the beginning that we could add or detract from this list as we go, so there is no real need to delay inviting the Auditor General after all the other witnesses are here.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, John Cannis]

I'll permit two more comments; then we can wrap it up.

Go ahead, Mr. Hiebert.

[Russ Hiebert, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC]

Mr. Chair, unlike the presumption of Mr. Coderre, the government hasn't taken a position on whether we would want to hear from the Auditor General. I simply wanted to know if we were having an opportunity to debate this issue now.

In light of the fact that we're having this debate, I do recall that this committee expressed concerns about extending the timeline for witnesses when we first set up the calendar for this particular topic. My concern would be that this would extend the calendar, extend the period of time that's been set aside to hear witnesses. I would ask the clerk that we not extend the calendar if this motion does proceed, but extend the current sitting of a session. If a particular witness we were seeking is not available, the Auditor General could replace that witness, but we should not extend the time.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, John Cannis]

So if I understand this correctly, at a given sitting we'll just go beyond the normal hours. Is that what you're saying?

[Russ Hiebert, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC]

That's correct.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, John Cannis]

It's pending room availability as well.

Is there one more comment?

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

Let's put the question.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, John Cannis]

We'll call the question on inviting the Auditor General, as the guidelines require us to do. We'll have a recorded vote.

[Russ Hiebert, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC]

I think it's unanimous, Mr. Chair.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, John Cannis]

Okay, great, excellent. Thank you for that.

(Motion agreed to)

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, John Cannis]

We'll just move on, then.

I'd like to welcome our guests. We have with us today, from the Department of National Defence, Vice-Admiral Robertson, chief of the maritime staff; Commodore Greenwood, director general, maritime equipment program management; and from Public Works and Government Services Canada, we have Mr. Terry Williston, director general of land, aerospace, and marine systems and major project sectors. We also have with us Mr. Edward Lam, director of the joint support ship project.

I'll just introduce our guests for the second session as well, if I may. Also from the Department of National Defence, we have Lieutenant General Leslie, chief of the land staff. We have with us Colonel Riffou, director of land requirements. We have with us Chief Warrant Officer Lacroix, land forces chief warrant officer. From Public Works and Government Services Canada, we have, as I mentioned earlier, Mr. Terry Williston, director general of land, aerospace, and marine systems.

I'd like to welcome you, gentlemen, and thank you for being with us today.

I think the normal practice when I was chairing was that the witnesses spoke first. Will all four of you be speaking, if I may ask? I just need to know for timing purposes.

[Vice-Admiral D. Robertson, Chief of the Maritime Staff, Department of National Defence]

Do you mean in terms of an opening statement? I believe I'm the only one with an opening comment.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, John Cannis]

Good, so we'll allow ten minutes, then, sir, for your presentation, and then we'll start our normal practice with questions.

The floor is yours, sir.