National Defence Committee on Dec. 3rd, 2009

[The Chair, Conservative, Maxime Bernier]

Yes.

[Bryon Wilfert, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

The first is that while major acquisitions have been accounted for in the Canada First defence strategy, the demand for replacement weapon systems, in my view, seems to be skewed, particularly at the front end of the 20-year projection--for example, ships in 2015, combat vehicles, etc. I would ask you to respond to that.

Also, there is this issue of the 2%. The government has talked about this 2% issue for inflation, but the way I read it, it looks as if it's only going to maintain the current spending within the defence budget, yet the demands are obviously going to increase.

Finally, Mr. Chairman, it's difficult to identify quantitative performance parameters that have been set out in measuring the government's successes in delivering the CFDS, especially in the short term—it's the short term I'm concerned about, I understand the future.

If you could respond to those through the clerk, I'd appreciate that.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

[The Chair, Conservative, Maxime Bernier]

I will give the floor to Mr. Payne, for five minutes.

[LaVar Payne, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I'd like to welcome, again, the Canadian Forces and staff from the department.

Earlier this week this committee heard about the reserves, 2,000 in Quebec, who argued that the important role they're playing in supporting the Afghan mission is, in effect, undermining the regimental system and calling into question the very survival of the reserves. Do you agree with that statement, and could you elaborate on the role the Canadian Forces is playing in terms of the reserves?

[Gen Walter Natynczyk]

The reserves have never had such an important role as they do today. Again, under the Canada First defence strategy, the reserves will grow to 30,000. The fact is that thousands of Canadians are signing up each and every year in order to have a part-time career with adventure in the reserves. We are putting about 20% of each rotation into Afghanistan with reservists. Those individuals volunteer twice. They volunteer once to join the military; they volunteer a second time to go to Afghanistan. There's no reason compelling them to go. We have many reservists who want to go on repeat tours, and they're bringing home a wealth of experience.

I just visited Trois-Rivière a short while ago, the 12e Régiment blindé de milice, and their level of experience and expertise has grown over the past few years. Those young soldiers and officers are coming home with a wealth of experience in both reconnaissance and tank operations, and they are bringing that back and training the other soldiers. We have a new normal in the reserves, which is affecting the Canadian Forces from coast to coast.

Closer to home, we've now identified reserve units for the Arctic. They're getting experience going into the north on exercise. It's not a surprise that many units want to be identified as being Arctic units, because again they want to do something different.

In this current environment, we have a very high operational tempo, whether it be in support of the RCMP and the Olympics, Arctic sovereignty, or in terms of operations, not only in Afghanistan but in places like Sierra Leone and the Congo, the Middle East, and Haiti. When people put on this uniform, it means they want to go somewhere, and they bring home that experience and raise the level of expertise of the units even higher.

[LaVar Payne, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

Thank you for that.

There's one thing that I want to make sure is quite clear. It was implied during that other presentation that the regular Canadian Forces were saying these individuals must join the regular forces. My understanding, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, is that the reservists are volunteering.

[Major-General W. Semianiw, Chief of Military Personnel, Department of National Defence]

If I could, I'll respond to that question, Mr. Chair.

First, they are volunteers. Reservists volunteer to go on any mission operation throughout the world. What happens is that they actually move to a different class or status within the Canadian Forces, from part-time to full-time. Even in that full-time status they are not in the regular force, even though they are afforded all the benefits and the support that you would receive if you were in the regular force. When they come back from that time overseas or even here in Canada--as they will support the Olympic operations--they revert back to their unit.

To build on what you said, regimentally, they wear their regimental cap badge and maintain their regimental identity. I would submit that they come back very strong regimentally.

[LaVar Payne, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

Thank you.

I'll share the rest of my time with Mr. Boughen.

[The Chair, Conservative, Maxime Bernier]

You have one minute.

[Ray Boughen, Conservative, Palliser, SK]

You're generous to a fault, Mr. Chair.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[Ray Boughen, Conservative, Palliser, SK]

Thank you very much, gentlemen. Thank you for taking your time out of your busy day to meet with us.

I have a question for Mr. Fonberg. Most departments have the ability to carry over 5% of their funding. DND has only a couple of hundred million. Can you share with us what the impact of that is on your programs within DND? Do you have a recommendation that we might look at that would change that around a bit?

[Robert Fonberg, Deputy Minister, Department of National Defence]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

This was an issue that we had a lengthy discussion on at the public accounts committee. The member is right. Every other department has a 5% carry-forward opportunity. The Department of National Defence was set at $200 million back in the mid-1990s, and I think there's a general growing realization by the Auditor General, the public accounts committee and, by virtue of your question, this committee as well as to the ability to manage a $20 billion organization while not being allowed to go to $20 billion and one dollar because we would blow our appropriation. We are not allowed to have anything other than $19,800,000,000 spent, because we lose it to a lapse.

The implications really are the amount of management time that's focused on trying to land, essentially, a 747 on the back of a small aircraft carrier, to a $200 million carry-forward. It is extremely time-consuming. We do it and we do it with great diligence--and frankly, great expertise on the financial side--but it probably is not the best use of time overall in the organization. So if I were looking to the committee for a recommendation, it would certainly be to help us move that number up. We're in discussions with the Department of Finance and others on that issue.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Maxime Bernier]

Thank you, very much.

I will give the floor to Monsieur Bouchard.

[Robert Bouchard, Bloc, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Good morning and welcome General Natynczyk, Deputy Minister, gentlemen. Thank you for being here this morning.

In October, when you and the minister appeared before the committee, I asked you a number of questions and you agreed to submit a written response; however, I have not yet received any answers. I would appreciate that you keep your word and provide me with these answers.

The Minister of National Defence and the Minister of State (Economic Development Agency of Canada for the Regions of Quebec), the member for Roberval—Lac-Saint-Jean, my region, said that, by 2010, the Bagotville expeditionary squadron would reach its operational level of 250 members of the Canadian Forces. They also said that they still expected to meet the 2015 deadline for the expeditionary squadron: 550 military and 100 civilian members.

Can you confirm whether you are acting in accordance with these statements?

[Gen Walter Natynczyk]

These staffing goals for the expeditionary squadron are very important to the Canadian Forces, especially since their mission is first and foremost one of leadership.

That being said, the Canadian Forces are currently experiencing a staffing squeeze, given that we have an aircraft squadron in Afghanistan. We currently have some 400 aircraftmen in Afghanistan. A certain degree of pressure is also generated by transfer requirements for our members and their families.

This has an effect on the Bagotville expeditionary squadron. We have our objectives, but we also need to strike a balance for CF members and their families with regard to the intensity of our operations in Afghanistan. Those are the pressures that the air force is facing at the moment.

[Robert Bouchard, Bloc, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

I understand that you are facing pressures and that you have to prioritize. However, I would like Bagotville to be a priority.

General, I understand that there are other priority bases that, due to the activities in which they are involved, have seen a rise in personnel. I believe that Bagotville has not seen a rise in personnel because it is not a priority for the Department of Defence, and that is a shame.

According to some statements that have been made, there should be 250 members of the Canadian Forces in Bagotville in 2010; however, I think that we will have barely 60 by December 31. We are only a few weeks away from the deadline for this commitment that was made to the public, yet no work has started regarding the infrastructure needed in Bagotville.

It takes not months but years to build aircraft hangars and other infrastructure.

Have building plans been drafted to provide infrastructure for this section of the battalion? Do you have deadlines for building aircraft hangars? Do you have a deadline?

[Gen Walter Natynczyk]

I believe that is part of the Expeditionary Squadron Project. Perhaps Mr. Ross could provide you with more detailed information.

[Dan Ross, Assistant Deputy Minister (Materiel), Department of National Defence]

Thank you for the question.

We have had a series of studies, working with the Chief of the Air Staff, on the problems of infrastructure and personnel to meet that requirement. Those plans are still in a fairly preliminary state. The air force, as the general said, is fairly challenged to meet the current exigencies of deployed operations, which they recently embarked on with the Hercules and Griffons, and they're trying to sustain the Chinooks with all the support personnel that entails. Their hope is to centralize that expertise and that deployable capacity at some date in the future.

I have to say that I'm not exactly up to date on where the Chief of the Air Staff is in being able to execute that, but we take that commitment seriously and continue to work hard at it.

[The Chair, Conservative, Maxime Bernier]

Thank you.

[Gen Walter Natynczyk]

I would like to reiterate the importance of this squadron. I would be happy to take the time to provide you with a written answer.

[Robert Bouchard, Bloc, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Could I have a written response to all the questions that I asked? When will this expeditionary squadron be operational; in other words, when would the staffing goal of 250 military personnel be reached?

I also have another question.

[The Chair, Conservative, Maxime Bernier]

Mr. Bouchard, your time is up. The witnesses will provide you with a written answer to your last question.

I now have to give the floor to Mr. Braid for five minutes.

[Peter Braid, Conservative, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thanks very much to all of you gentlemen for being here this morning.

I would like to wrap up our time today by asking a question on the important issue of recruitment. The minister, in his presentation earlier, indicated that the Canadian Forces were in the midst of our largest recruitment effort since the Korean War. Could you update us on the status of our recruitment efforts, the effectiveness of these efforts, and how this fits into and supports our Canada First defence strategy?

[MGen W. Semianiw]

I would like to first provide some context. We recruit annually to something called a strategic intake plan. It lays out that for each occupation and trade within the Canadian Forces we can recruit so many people. It's not just wide open; there are specific targets.

As you heard from the minister already, we've achieved many of those targets. In 35 of the trades and occupations we've already achieved our targets for this year. The overall target for this year was about 7,700. The last time we had to successfully achieve that volume was a long time ago.

So looking at the results at this time--which is not the best recruiting time of the year--we are at 75% of our target for this year. The best time to recruit, when we see most of the numbers come in, is in December, January, February, and March. We look at the recruiting period over the fiscal year. So overall we've had great success in many of the trades occupations.

We are still working hard. Particularly on the navy side there are some stressed trades, as I mentioned the last time I was here. These are trades that are more difficult to recruit, not because of what we do but because they are in such a high demand across the entire Canadian and international spectrum on both the military and civilian sides. We've had impressive numbers, in particular on the navy side. We have already recruited as many as we recruited last year in the naval electronics trades, and there are still four months left to go.

So overall we've had great success when it comes to the recruitment function.