National Defence Committee on Oct. 25th, 2011

[RAdm Andrew Smith]

Part of this road to mental readiness is an appreciation that's given to members of the physiological reactions to stress—how to mitigate it with self-talk, visualization, and breathing techniques. My francophone colleagues often invite me to

respirer par le nez.

Well, that's helpful. The mental health nurse goes out in the field to reinforce some of those techniques that people have been taught but that may need a bit of reinforcement. This has proven to be very useful.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

I have a couple of questions myself. Mr. Chisu asked about the management of medical records and didn't have a chance to hear a response. How has the armed forces been making out in tracking the medical records? Especially when members are transferring between units, deploying, and then returning home, is there any need for improvement in how these records are moved around in the system?

[Col Jean-Robert Bernier]

Any organization that uses paper records has some difficulties in that regard, particularly with a mobile patient population that moves around all over the place, with delays in getting records delivered here and there or with having the complete medical record available, if, for example, a sailor is out at sea on a warship or on a deployed operation.

By June 2012 at the latest, we'll have the fully rolled out Canadian Forces electronic health records system in place that will permit any physician or any medical staff, anywhere in the world—on a warship, in Kandahar, in Afghanistan, or in Kabul—wherever there is a terminal, to be able to access the medical record of any CF member. So they could be in Victoria one day and in Kandahar the next, and the physician at each location will be able to see the complete medical record. So there won't be any issues anymore with that kind of transition.

We've made strides in the interim with various measures to try to enhance the reliability, the completeness of the medical record, and the speed of its transfer for deployments or for the people who are mobile across the country. In fact the health information system is being looked at as a model across Canada. It's the first one that'll be pan-Canadian, that'll provide that kind of real-time access to the complete medical record anywhere in Canada or the world where troops are deployed.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

And would that be available as well to provincial health care service providers, because we do depend on them for many in the armed forces?

[Col Jean-Robert Bernier]

The architecture is based on the Canada Health Infoway structure that's been accepted by all health jurisdictions in Canada as a basis. The problem is that we're further ahead than most jurisdictions, so most jurisdictions don't have the ability to tap into a medical record and to transfer information. So for various things like lab results or consultations from civilian facilities, we'll still have to rely on the transfer of paper records or an electronic version, like a PDF of paper records, and enter them manually into our electronic health record.

Eventually, however, when all of the provinces and all of the regional health authorities have become digital, using the Canada Health Infoway infrastructure, we'll be able to transfer information directly back and forth to any health jurisdiction.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Thank you.

In one of your responses to either Mr. McKay or Mr. Chisholm, you were talking about the wait times for mental health care. You said that the armed forces have a dramatically shorter wait time, generally, in comparison to the rest of Canada. Can you quantify that? How much is “dramatically shorter”?

[Col Jean-Robert Bernier]

It varies from region to region. For example, in Petawawa, the average wait time for psychiatric care is about 6.5 weeks for all of Ontario, and it may be longer for Petawawa specifically. For the military personnel at the base, it's about 3.5 weeks or less.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

So it's half the time or thereabouts.

You also made mention that we're in the process of hiring more mental health specialists, that we're up to 380 in the technical field. You're going to be hiring more, though, because I think you said we're heading for 420.

[Col Jean-Robert Bernier]

It is about 380, and we are heading for 447.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Okay, it is 447.

And in what timeframe are you going to fill the rest of those positions?

[Col Jean-Robert Bernier]

It will be as soon as we can. We've been trying for years to fill them all, but the process of finding people, in competition with the scarcity across the Canadian market for mental health professionals, is challenging. In the interim we have to augment services by using innovative methods like telehealth, teleconsultations, and movement of uniformed mental health professionals to where they're needed most.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

The last question I have is to Rear-Admiral Smith on this whole issue of reintegration. I'm following up on Mr. McKay about the return to work program, when those individuals who unfortunately have had a physical injury or a mental injury are not able to be classified as being employable or deployable within the armed services. Yet these are individuals who wanted to be career soldiers, with a career in our military, and they still want to work with the armed forces. Is there any way to transfer them to the civilian population and then rehire them, because we do use a lot of civilian staff with the Canadian armed forces? Is there an opportunity to use some of those people who may be amputees or suffer from other injuries and still fulfill their desire to be involved with the Canadian Forces?

[RAdm Andrew Smith]

Mr. Chair, I'll give you a two-pronged answer. First of all, for those people who are releasing and who want to stay associated with Defence, there is really a civilian tangent to the answer and a military tangent.

On the civilian side, I refer to the priority hiring that's available within the public service. The overriding criterion, though, has to be the ability to be competent in the job. So through the vocational rehabilitation services that we provide through the insurance program, if somebody wants to be a heavy equipment operator, they can go and follow that training with a view to becoming a heavy equipment operator in the public service, but they still have to be competent for the job. So we look to facilitate that.

The second one is if someone has a burning desire to remain and wear the uniform every day, we will offer them an opportunity to stay in either the cadet organization or as part of the administration of the Canadian Rangers, where the principles of universality of service do not apply. If they would elect to do so, we will transfer them, but that would mean they'd no longer be an infanteer or a bosun or a pilot, but they would still be able to be part of the uniformed family, if you would.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Thank you very much.

I want to thank all three of you and your staff for the compassion and the leadership you are showing in caring for our ill and injured, for working with our military families, and for providing services that are so desperately needed.

This is a great way to kick off our study, and it is one into which we are going to put a lot of elbow grease over the next few weeks. So I do appreciate your taking the time to come here to present today.

I'm going to dismiss you.

We do have one other piece of business to deal with. As everyone knows, we are without a first vice-chair, and according to Standing Order 106(2), I will turn over the election of our vice-chair to our clerk.

[Isabelle Dumas, Procedural Clerk, Committees Directorate, House of Commons]

I am now prepared to receive motions for the first vice-chair.

Ms. Gallant.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

I'd like to nominate David Christopherson for the position of first vice-chair.

[Isabelle Dumas]

It has been moved by Ms. Gallant that Mr. Christopherson be elected as first vice-chair of the committee.

Are there any other motions?

Is it the pleasure of the committee to adopt the motion?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[Isabelle Dumas]

I declare the motion carried and Mr. Christopherson duly elected first vice-chair of the committee.

[Some hon. members]

Hear, hear!

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

I join in this.

Mr. Kellway.

[Matthew Kellway, NDP, Beaches—East York, ON]

Mr. Chair, is there an update to the committee calendar available?

The second part of that question is this. Can you, or through you to the clerk, provide an update on the efforts to bring General Leslie to the committee?

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

I will deal with General Leslie first. He had declined our invitation to appear before the committee. At this point in time we are accepting that, otherwise we'd have to subpoena him if we wish to bring him here. I don't think we're at that point. We do have his report that we can reference, and he also testified before the Senate committee and we can look at that testimony in our consideration of business.

As to a work calendar, I'm going to suggest that sometime next week we do need to have a steering committee meeting to organize our work after the break week, so we'll get that organized in the next day or so.

With that, I'll entertain a motion to adjourn.

[An hon. member]

I so move.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

We're out of here. The meeting is adjourned.