National Defence Committee on May 25th, 2015

[The Chair, Conservative, Peter Kent]

Good afternoon, colleagues, and welcome.

We are gathered here today, pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), for a briefing on the external review into sexual misconduct and sexual harassment in the Canadian Armed Forces.

We have two witnesses with us here today. They are, as an individual, former Madam Justice Marie Deschamps, who chaired the external review authority, and from the Department of National Defence, Major-General Christine Whitecross, commander, Canadian Armed Forces strategic response team on sexual misconduct.

We will begin as usual with opening statements.

Madam Justice Deschamps.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

Mr. Chair, I have a point of order.

The committee will recall that at our last public meeting, on May 13, the minister agreed that he would come to this committee to discuss the matter of this report along with Madame Deschamps and Major-General Whitecross.

A motion was formally passed at that time:

That the Standing Committee on National Defence invite the Minister of National Defence, the Chief of the Defence Staff, retired Supreme Court Justice Marie Deschamps and MGen Christine Whitecross as witnesses to appear before the Committee to answer questions about Justice Deschamps' external investigation of sexual misconduct in the military, and the Canadian Armed Forces' response thereto, for two hours, as soon as possible.

We have met the last condition regarding “as soon as possible”, and we're very grateful for the attendance of Madame Deschamps and Major-General Whitecross, but the principal responsibility for the military rests with both the Minister of National Defence and the Chief of the Defence Staff. They are not here. They are the ones with the ultimate authority in these matters. We think those two individuals not being here demonstrates a lack of leadership.

I wonder why it is, Mr. Chair, they're not here. The Minister of National Defence said he would be here if he wasn't out of the country. He's still in the country. He was at question period today.

[The Chair, Conservative, Peter Kent]

Mr. Harris, before I go to Mr. Bezan on a point of order, you'll recall that the minister said that, conditional on availability, he would attend. We thought, given the great parliamentary and public interest in this issue and given the availability of Madam Justice Deschamps and General Whitecross, we should take full advantage of their availability today, and we are delighted they were willing to attend.

Mr. Bezan.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake, MB]

I'll just add to that, Mr. Chair.

The motion didn't specify that it was going to be just one meeting. We had an opportunity here. General Whitecross and Madame Deschamps were available today. Unfortunately the CDS and the minister were not, but we'll definitely look at other possible days we can have them here.

Still, the spirit of the motion is being respected. We have two great witnesses here. We need to take this time to hear what they have to say and to ask the relevant questions.

[The Chair, Conservative, Peter Kent]

I agree.

Madam Justice Deschamps, please begin your opening remarks.

[Marie Deschamps, External Review Authority, As an Individual]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

When the Chief of the Defence Staff, General Lawson, entrusted me with the mandate of examining the Canadian armed forces policy on sexual harassment and sexual assault, he told me he wanted the point of view of a person from the outside.

My report is the fruit of some intense work. I met over 700 people. I did an exhaustive and thorough study of policies, and I reviewed what are currently considered the best practices in the area of sexual harassment and assault.

I will not comment on my report here, save for two points I wish to emphasize, which can be summarized in two words: victims, and trust.

I will begin by speaking about victims. Each one of the 10 recommendations in my report aims to improve conditions for members of the Canadian armed forces. The impact has to be felt at all levels, not only in daily life, but also in the support afforded to victims and the prevention of incidents.

Supporting victims means that the Canadian armed forces have to give priority to the needs of the victims. In discussing prevention I of course refer to training. The Canadian armed forces have to teach their members what professional behaviour is and what is not acceptable. Prevention also means deterring eventual offenders by promptly imposing sanctions that will make everyone understand that there will be no compromises.

We cannot underestimate the importance and attention that must be afforded victims. It is through them that the Canadian armed forces will be able to assess the evolution of change in their culture. These men and women will allow them to verify the level of respect for the dignity of persons and the professionalism of our armed forces.

The second point is a guiding principle underlying my recommendation. It is the need to rebuild the trust and confidence of the Canadian Forces members in their organization. This will require short-term, medium-term, and long-term measures to bring about real changes.

Such change will take time. The first step, however, is for the Canadian Forces leadership to demonstrate to members through their actions that they acknowledge that the problem of sexual harassment and sexual assault in the armed forces is real. But most important, the forces need to show that they will take all the necessary steps to tackle this issue, including adopting measures that are recognized as international and national best practices.

One of these practices on which I heavily relied corresponds to what many members and people who worked with victims told me they needed. It is the creation of an independent centre where victims can seek support and advice. It is critical that such a centre be truly independent of the armed forces in order to reassure victims that by reporting an incident of sexual harassment or sexual assault, they will be able to access support without triggering negative consequences for their careers or in their personal lives.

I took inspiration from models that various countries adopted. The American and Australian forces created their respective centres in 2005 and 2012. Last summer, in 2014, the French forces also implemented a centre called Cellule Thémis.

Based on my consultation with members and with persons who worked with victims of harassment and assault, I found that the creation of an independent centre to assist and support victims of sexual assault and sexual harassment is an essential step in rebuilding the confidence of members in their organization.

In my report, speaking about the process of investigating and prosecuting sexual assault, I mentioned that each country has developed their own response to their problems. The centre I recommend is not identical to any of the existing ones and I did not view my mandate as describing in minute detail the form that it should take.

However, the Canadian Forces should attempt to draw the best features from each existing model. In my view, the more independent the centre is, the better are the chances that the victims will seek support and fully report incidents of sexual harassment and sexual assault. Reporting is fundamental not only because the victims need support, but also because the Canadian Forces need to know how members behave.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Peter Kent]

Thank you.

General Whitecross, please make your opening remarks.

[MGen Christine Whitecross, Commander, Canadian Armed Forces Strategic Response Team on Sexual Misconduct, Department of National Defence]

Thank you, Mr. Chair and committee members, for the opportunity to appear before you today to provide an update on the progress the Canadian Armed Forces strategic response team is making in dealing with inappropriate sexual behaviour in the forces.

You will remember that the external review authority's report and the action plan developed by the Canadian Armed Forces to deal specifically with Madame Deschamps' 10 recommendations were released to the Canadian public on April 30, 2015.

Let me start by saying that the past 17 working days since the release of the action plan indeed have been very busy. As I stated at the time of the release, inappropriate sexual behaviour is a complex problem that defies quick fixes and band-aid solutions. To successfully address it, our approach centres on identifying and treating its fundamental root causes rather than simply addressing the symptoms. Madame Deschamps' insight and analysis is absolutely pivotal in this approach. So, what has transpired during the last two and a half weeks?

First, we have reaffirmed that the strategic response team's mission is to enhance the operational readiness of the Canadian Forces by eliminating incidents and impacts of inappropriate sexual behaviour to the extent possible.

The goal is a Canadian Armed Forces that upholds a culture of dignity and respect for all. These are core Canadian values that the institution exists to defend in Canada and around the globe. In other words, in the long term we will enhance the fundamental Canadian Armed Forces' culture to the point that inappropriate sexual behaviour will not be tolerated either by targets of such behaviour or by anyone who witnesses it.

In the short term, we will trigger positive shifts in behaviour through increased awareness of acceptable norms, expectations, responsibilities and accountabilities by engaging with both the chain of command and grassroots membership across the organization.

Additionally, the recently formed Canadian Armed Forces strategic response team on sexual misconduct, which I lead, continues to grow and mature. It is noteworthy that this is the first time in the Canadian Armed Forces' history that an entity has been formed for the sole purpose of addressing this important issue. I have assembled a highly capable, multidisciplinary team consisting of civilian personnel, military members and former military members with the appropriate combination of required skills and experience.

We have identified four major lines of effort critical to achieving the objective. As described in our action plan, the first is to understand the problem. The second is to respond effectively to incidents of inappropriate behaviour, including enhancing the process of reporting. The third is to better support victims throughout the process. The fourth is to prevent occurrences from taking place in the first place.

We have already made considerable progress in several of these endeavours. In terms of understanding, my team has carefully examined Madame Deschamps' report and has begun considering how best to address each of her 10 recommendations.

For example, a key recommendation in Madame Deschamps' report was the creation of an independent centre to deal with inappropriate sexual behaviour. She provided us with several examples, including those established in the United States and Australian militaries.

The analysis of an independent centre will be the focal point of the strategic response team's planning and development in the coming weeks. Accordingly, my team and I recently met with American officials on their SAPRO model and Australian officials on their SeMPRO organization. Both consultations were very productive and provided the team with better insight into a field-tested, proven option with the potential to illustrate how a similar construct could be developed to fit the needs of the Canadian Armed Forces or the Department of National Defence.

In addition to these two visits, members of the strategic response team visited the Peel Regional Police and the Canadian Army Command and Staff College to open discussions about educational opportunities. They attended an international workshop in Geneva that brought together a broad spectrum of international experts on the core facets of sexual harassment and sexual assault in organizational environments. They attended a conference on gender-based analysis plus in security and defence operations held in Ottawa. They met with Ambassador Schuurman, the NATO secretary general's special representative for women, peace and security.

A key component of the behavioural and cultural change I alluded to earlier is connecting with the Canadian Armed Forces members at every level of the organization, including at the pointy end, to both increase awareness of the Canadian Armed Forces' response to Madame Deschamps' report, and to inspire open dialogue and personal reflection on the problem of inappropriate sexual behaviour in the forces. This is quite similar to the approach previously employed in shifting internal stigmas and behaviour surrounding post-traumatic stress disorder and operational stress injuries, which we largely succeeded in doing in the late 1990s and early 2000s.

With members of my team, I began connecting directly with the men and women of the Canadian Armed Forces across Canada starting on May 1, the day after the release of the report. Through a series of town hall meetings, individual question and answer sessions, discussions with the local chain of command, as well as interactions with interested local and regional media, the strategic response team is reaching out to Canadian Armed Forces members and setting the conditions for ongoing dialogue.

I open each session with the acknowledgement that this is a serious problem within the Canadian Armed Forces and that al though no one wants to discuss inappropriate sexual behaviour, it is important to start the discussion. So far, we have been to six bases and wings where I have briefed approximately 5,300 military personnel at 16 general sessions. The questions, comments, concerns, and perspectives in these sessions have brought to light both positive and negative personal experience anecdotes and reinforced two realities: one, the problem is highly complex; and two, while there is a collective will to move the organization forward, there is little consensus as to the gravity of the existing problem.

In the next few months, I look forward to completing the town halls at all 33 bases and wings to ensure that the majority of Canadian Armed Forces members have an opportunity to hear and understand what the team is doing, ask questions and express opinions, and learn about the direction being taken by the Canadian Armed Forces.

Similarly, my team and I will continue our focused consultations with both domestic and international entities that are dealing with a problem similar to ours. This includes military, government, police, and other non-governmental organizations that are able to provide us with applicable insight on best practices and lessons learned.

One of the reasons the Canadian Armed Forces' response to the problem of inappropriate sexual behaviour will be more effective this time is the heightened emphasis on outcome measurement. Even the most elaborate plans and outputs mean little if they do not translate into tangible outcomes and results on the ground. To this end, my team is studying program evaluation methodologies to ensure we are able to measure how effective the changes we implement actually are in practice.

Reporting will go hand in hand with performance measurement. Starting in the fall, I will deliver to the Chief of the Defence Staff my first quarterly report on the Canadian Armed Forces' progress in responding to the problem of inappropriate sexual behaviour. The report will also be released to the Canadian public. We are fully committed to open, transparent dialogue with external stakeholders. Over the past 25 days we have interacted with a total of 88 different media agencies in group and individual engagements. My team and I are committed to standing up and being held to account on this crucial imperative and will continue to be actively engaged with the public, Parliament, and the media.

We have also begun to examine how we can improve the Canadian Armed Forces' approach to training and education in order to shift culture towards enhancing the level of dignity and respect. As well, the team, in conjunction with other Canadian Armed Forces and Department of National Defence personnel, is reviewing existing policy to assess its clarity, coherence, appropriateness, and applicability. As part of this endeavour, all terminology and definitions pertaining to inappropriate sexual behaviour will be thoroughly examined.

Inappropriate sexual behaviour remains a complex problem, one that quick fixes will not solve substantively or sustainably. My team is focused on creating innovative, meaningful change tailored to the needs of the Canadian Armed Forces members and based on best practices and lessons learned from a wide range of sources. This is a no-fail mission for the Canadian Armed Forces that my team and I are completely and utterly committed to.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Peter Kent]

Thank you.

We'll move now to the first round of questions, with seven-minute segments.

Ms. Gallant, please.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

First of all, Madam Justice Deschamps, thank you very much for the study you did. You did it promptly and in good time, so that we're able to put an action plan together.

We understand that the Canadian Armed Forces strategic response team was set up specifically with regard to your report and its recommendations. Do you think this is a good start to addressing the issues that you'd outlined?

[Marie Deschamps]

Yes, certainly. This is a reaction that is very positive. It demonstrates at least that the leadership is committed to doing something. I should add that I was pleased that the report was released very quickly after it was submitted; in fact, it was submitted at the end of March. It took a few weeks to translate, and very soon after the translation was completed, it was released.

The fact that they showed transparency in the report itself and that even early on they announced that there would be a task force put in place are good signs.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Can you elaborate on your own professional experience and background? Are there any cases you dealt with which, in retrospect, you found helped prepare you for this particular task?

[Marie Deschamps]

In many ways it called me to draw on my experience as a litigator and also my experience as a judge because we had to sit with people and ask questions. Sometimes it was easy to get the people to talk, or to confide in a certain way, and at other times it was much less easy. Both the examination and cross-examination part of my experience as a litigator was important.

Also, my 22 years as a judge helped me make sure that I listened to the whole story until the end, because the collection of data took a number of months. I started my first interview on July 11. The contract was signed June 30; the first interview was July 11, and the last interviews were mid-December. I had to wait until the end to make sure all the facts that I needed to master were computed before drawing any conclusion, or even before starting to put any recommendation on paper.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

In those interviews did you interview women in the Canadian Armed Forces who had reported incidents of sexual assault, or of harassment, and who were not already on the track out of the military?

[Marie Deschamps]

Yes, we met the full range. We met people who had never reported. We met people who had reported, the case was closed and they were still in the military and not on their way out. We also met people who were on their way out and others who were already veterans.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Did you have the freedom to speak to whomever you wanted?

[Marie Deschamps]

Yes. Early on, the Chief of the Defence Staff announced to the members and former members that they could contact me directly. I had created, through an organization, a specific address where people could write to me directly. I was the only person opening those emails because I did not want the information to lose this confidential aspect. I asked people to write to me under pseudonyms so they were confident they could communicate with me and there would be no possibility for them to be identified. I was able to receive information from people who were no longer in the military.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

You are aware this isn't the first time issues of sexual misconduct within the Canadian Armed Forces have been raised. Where do you feel we fell short in the past in terms of dealing with this issue?

[Marie Deschamps]

This issue is a recurring one and it's an evolving one. Of the people I met, a number indicated to me the situation has improved a lot, but that there are still improvements to be made.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

One of your recommendations is to have an independent sexual assault centre. How would this be put into use in the theatre when such an incident occurs? Would there be some satellite office, an entity?

[Marie Deschamps]

I can give you as examples, in Australia or in France, the first thing you see when you open their website is an incident report. There are many ways in which the members can communicate with the organization, by telephone, email, or in person. It also indicates they can go through other people. It doesn't mean, for example in Australia, that they cannot go to other military personnel, but it is felt that the victims feel more confident to seek help when it's someone to whom they can confide. They can confide knowing there is no consequence for their lives.

[The Chair, Conservative, Peter Kent]

That's time, Ms. Gallant.

Mr. Harris, please, for seven minutes.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Madame Deschamps and Major-General Whitecross, for joining us.

First, Madame Deschamps, I want to thank you for your report and your very thorough investigation. You have reported an alarming story of the situation in the military, confirming what was made public in 1998 by Maclean's and by L'actualité in 2014.

One of the fundamental concerns shows that there's a fundamental lack of trust in the military justice system and in the military police's ability to deal with it, so much so that, as you report, the overwhelming majority of victims do not report incidents, so we really don't have a full handle on the extent of the problem.

One of the concerns I have, and which we even see in the name of the report, which is referred to as a report on sexual misconduct and sexual harassment, is that we're using various terms and definitions, as you point out. Of course, sexual assault is a criminal act and in the civilian criminal system is prosecuted as such. There seems to be a more amorphous treatment of criminal behaviour in the military, perhaps based on some of the definitions that we have.

Can you tell us, first of all, why it is that in the military the military police officers have the ability and discretion to not lay a charge, or if they want to lay a charge, why they have to have the consent of the chain of command? Why don't I see anything where this might change?

[Marie Deschamps]

I don't know why this is so, but in terms of this question, the discretion exists even in the civilian justice system. Whether it's more used in the military might be a question. As I mention in my report, my mandate was not to do a kind of survey or to do a comparison in terms of numbers. However, what I have realized is that there is not this confidence that they can go and not suffer consequences.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

As you point out, we see a culture of negative attitudes towards women, and apparently a culture of impunity for perpetrators of sexual assault. At the same time, victims themselves have large consequences, often resulting in their being expelled from the military, or first of all not being taken seriously, treated as troublemakers, and all of that.

I want to ask both of you a question on the timeliness of responses. We've talked about changing culture; that's not an overnight thing. You talk about new procedures, and now Major-General Whitecross is going to survey best practices around the world. How much time should elapse before a parent of a young person in Canada can have confidence in saying they would be happy to have their daughter or their son join the military knowing that they would be protected and not subjected to the kind of harassment or sexual assault...?

“Sexual misconduct” or “inappropriate sexual behaviour” seem to me to be a bit too amorphous. We're talking about criminal acts in the case of sexual assault, and obviously sexual harassment is bad as well.

How fast should this be done? Is there anything in the meantime that can say to someone who is in the military that they're not going to have to wait for the culture to change, and if they want their sexual assault charge taken to the civilian courts or to the civilian police, they can do it right away?