Evidence of meeting #7 for National Defence in the 41st Parliament, 2nd session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was million.
A recording is available from Parliament.
NDP
Jack Harris NDP St. John's East, NL
There was a statement by the previous minister back in June about a study being undertaken.
Conservative
Cheryl Gallant Conservative Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Lindsey referred to a part of what the lapses were allocated for, and we're on the topic of helicopters, so we're going to hone in on that for a minute.
The EH101...we all know the Liberals campaigned to cancel that procurement. The EH101 actually had three variations. There was the search and rescue, which Mr. Harris is alluding to, which was never ordered, and now we have the Cyclones, and instead of cannibalizing those for parts, we have just heard that other helicopters have been purchased so that we can keep them up in the air to do the wonderful work that our search and rescue techs do. The second was for medium and heavy lift. We have since obtained the Chinooks that are taking care of that tasking.
Still outstanding are the Sea King replacements, and we know that back when the Liberals were in charge, they purchased a replacement, the Cyclone, of which we have not yet taken delivery, to my understanding. So when Mr. Lindsey indicated that part of the lapse was due to equipment that was not delivered, I would assume that perhaps some of that would be the Cyclones.
Would he please tell me, cumulatively, over the years, the total amount that has lapsed as a consequence of non-delivery of the Cyclones? We'll start with that.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Chief Financial Officer, Finance and Corporate Services, Department of National Defence
Mr. Chair, it is true that over time there have been lapses associated with the acquisition of the Cyclone. I do not have with me.... We will have to get back to you to answer your question, which I took to be “How much in aggregate have we lapsed as a result of that acquisition?”
Conservative
Cheryl Gallant Conservative Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON
Thank you. The reason that's important, Mr. Chairman, is that what we've been told previously is that when there is non-delivery, that money has to go back to general revenues, Treasury Board. When delivery eventually occurs, DND will have to find the money to pay for that out of its operating costs.
I look forward to having the answer sent to the clerk and his sharing that with the committee.
Thank you.
Conservative
Deputy Minister, Department of National Defence
Mr. Chairman, could I ask Mr. Lindsey to comment on one aspect of Ms. Gallant's query, just to clarify?
Assistant Deputy Minister, Chief Financial Officer, Finance and Corporate Services, Department of National Defence
Just to clarify, when this money lapses, it is carried forward by the Department of Finance in the fiscal framework and made available to DND when it's required for the acquisition. I did not want to leave the committee with a misapprehension on that.
Conservative
Cheryl Gallant Conservative Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair. That may be the aggregate number I'm looking for.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Peter Kent
Thank you. That ends the second round of questioning.
The third round of questioning will begin with the NDP, Ms. Michaud.
NDP
Élaine Michaud NDP Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
The department is requesting authority to transfer funds to a variety of agencies and organizations, including Atomic Energy Canada Limited and the Canadian Grain Commission, to support the Canadian safety and security program. The amount being sought is more than $5.9 million.
Can you tell me exactly why the transfer is being sought and how the money will be spent?
Assistant Deputy Minister, Chief Financial Officer, Finance and Corporate Services, Department of National Defence
This is the Canadian safety and security program, which involves a number of departments and agencies. How the funding works is that DND effectively serves as the banker and a committee of officials reviews project proposals every year for departments and agencies that participate in this program. As those projects are approved, DND then transfers the money to the departments and agencies to carry out that work.
NDP
Élaine Michaud NDP Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC
Since I don't have a lot of time, I won't ask you to go into the details of the programs affected by the transfer. Could you, however, provide them to the committee in writing in short order?
Deputy Minister, Department of National Defence
Absolutely, to the extent they aren't confidential.
I can give her that.
NDP
Élaine Michaud NDP Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC
Of course. Thank you kindly.
The Department of National Defence is asking for authority to transfer more than $1.1 million to Natural Resources Canada for ongoing operation and maintenance of the Natural Resources Resolute facility and related logistics support to the Canadian Armed Forces Arctic Training Centre.
How much exactly of the transferred funds will be used to provide logistics support to the Canadian Armed Forces Arctic Training Centre?
Assistant Deputy Minister, Chief Financial Officer, Finance and Corporate Services, Department of National Defence
As we mentioned earlier, DND shares access to infrastructure with the Department of Natural Resources, which has considerable experience with northern operations. The transfer is simply to reimburse the Department of Natural Resources for operating costs arising from DND activities.
NDP
Élaine Michaud NDP Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC
Fine, but I'd like to know exactly how much of the $1.1 million is going to logistics support for the training centre. The $1.1-million transfer request pertains to the ongoing operation and maintenance of the Department of Natural Resources' facilities, so I'm just looking for a small clarification.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Chief Financial Officer, Finance and Corporate Services, Department of National Defence
It has to do with heating, power, snow removal and maintenance. It's tied to the cost of operating the facilities.
NDP
Élaine Michaud NDP Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC
So of that $1.1 million, you don't know the exact amount allocated to that? My question is this. Do you know, yes or no? No?
Deputy Minister, Department of National Defence
We don't have that information right now, but we would be happy to send it to the committee.
NDP
Élaine Michaud NDP Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC
Wonderful.
DND is requesting another transfer, one to Environment Canada, the Department of Fisheries and Oceans, and Parks Canada. It's just under $700,000 for investments in search and rescue prevention and coordination projects. I'd like to know what kinds of projects the money will fund.
Deputy Minister, Department of National Defence
Could I ask Mr. Martin to answer that?
Michael Martin Senior Associate Deputy Minister, Department of National Defence
Mr. Chairman, as you know, the Minister of National Defence is the lead minister for search and rescue in Canada. In that capacity we provide resources to other government departments that deliver services in this area, as well as to the provinces and territories, and to volunteer organizations, to support both specific initiatives to strengthen the capacity as well as for prevention.