National Defence Committee on Nov. 28th, 2013

[Élaine Michaud, NDP, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

I know that funds are being transferred, but I'd like more details on the projects in question.

[Michael Martin]

Mr. Lindsey can provide more specific information.

[The Chair, Conservative, Peter Kent]

Very briefly, please, Mr. Lindsey.

[Kevin Lindsey]

To Parks Canada, we are providing funding in the order of approximately $250,000 for avalanche prediction work and to provide visitor safety measures.

To the Department of Fisheries and Oceans, we are transferring approximately $200,000 for the delivery of a remote-operated vehicle that will provide an underwater sonar imaging capability that enhances search and rescue underwater capability and also provides a safer environment for rescuers.

Lastly, to Environment Canada, we are transferring approximately $85,000 for a weather radio facility at Haida Gwaii, which will help in tsunami prediction.

[The Chair, Conservative, Peter Kent]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Williamson, please.

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Thank you.

I'm following on Ms. Michaud's questions because I am going to go along the very same line.

Could I ask about something perhaps a little more specific? It comes up occasionally—I'm a member from New Brunswick—on the east coast. The difference in terms of your response rates, your daytime response rates versus your nighttime response rates, is a question that I'm asked from time to time.

I'd like to get some input on how that works and what your targets are and how you hit them.

[Michael Martin]

Mr. Williamson, I think you're referring to the air force's response times. Is that correct?

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Well, I'm referring to search and rescue in general for boaters who might be in distress.

[Michael Martin]

I would have to get back to you on the coast guard's particular response times and the standards in that regard.

Generally, the response times for the air force can be measured in minutes, but we can provide you with the specific details based on our latest information.

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Okay, I'd appreciate that. Thank you.

In terms of some of the planning that goes on, perhaps as part of this transfer, is that something that...? There is a concern that when it might be the end of the day shift for government officials, activities are still happening on land and on sea, for men and women who work in those areas.

How are those addressed, updated, to ensure that when Canadians need assistance, they are going to receive it as quickly as they can?

[Michael Martin]

The search and rescue system, as I mentioned, is a partnership in which there are clearly defined roles for each member. National Defence, through the Royal Canadian Air Force, responds to air incidents. The coast guard has the lead responsibility for incidents at sea. Ground search and rescue is the responsibility of the provinces and territories, except in national parks, where it's Parks Canada.

As part of the work that's ongoing in the system, there is a constant evaluation of the challenges and the ways in which we can strengthen the system.

One of the initiatives undertaken as part of the quadrennial review was a forum where we had a discussion to try to identify very practical areas where we could improve outcomes, strengthen our measurement of how we respond, and strengthen interoperability among all parts of the system. That work is ongoing, and we expect the government to report further on the results of that review in the near future.

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

One last comment.

Again, I raised this with Minister Nicholson. Congratulations have to go to all the men and women in uniform. The response to the situation in the Philippines was remarkable, seeing how quickly events turned around. I remember seeing it as well in Haiti; the assets were deployed so quickly.

My comment is this, and it's more just to be aware. Canadians are generous and do want to see those assets deployed to help people. They do also want to know that when they, themselves, require assistance in our waters, on our land—and from my point of view, particularly, on the waters, where men and women go to work—that this same focus and these same resources are there as well for Canadians. That's something I would ask as well.

Thank you very much, and I appreciate your being here today.

[The Chair, Conservative, Peter Kent]

There's about a minute remaining in your time, Mr. Bezan—

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Could you comment on that, Mr. Fadden?

[Richard Fadden]

I was just going to say, Mr. Chairman, that the government has made it very clear, for whatever resources the Canadian Forces have, as the Canada First defence strategy implies, Canada comes first. The commanders of the three services are very well aware of this, and they manage their resources in order to be able to do this.

I'll pass on your comments about maritime search and rescue to the Commissioner of the Canadian Coast Guard, but I believe he would say exactly the same as I'm saying.

[The Chair, Conservative, Peter Kent]

Very briefly, Mr. Bezan.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake, MB]

Mr. Chair, I just have one question.

Again, it goes back to the supplementary estimates. We're talking about the $514 million for the Manuge lawsuit and settling that. Is this now going to finalize that deal and all moneys are going to go to Manulife, which is managing that disbursal of funds to the veterans? I just want to make sure that this is it and we won't have to come back to this again.

[Kevin Lindsey]

The expectation, Mr. Chair, is that this will settle it. Of course, the exact number of claimants and the amounts of their respective claims remain to be determined. We believe this amount of money will meet our obligations under the settlement.

[The Chair, Conservative, Peter Kent]

Thank you.

Ms. Murray, you have the floor.

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I think Canadians want our armed forces to have the equipment they need, and what they really want from the government is competence and transparency. The challenges are enormous at a time of budget cuts.

It turns out that in 2009 the national shipbuilding procurement strategy estimated that 100 million labour hours would be necessary for the defence strategy of naval ships, but only 70 million person-hours would be affordable. Even at that time, in 2009...and since then the budgets have been cut.

My question relates to how risks are reflected in the budget here. There are two aspects to that. One, because of the lack of competition in the shipbuilding industry under the NSPS, several risks were identified for scheduled delays, unaffordable costs, and technical risks. According to the Auditor General's report, there are not adequate measures in place to be overseeing and monitoring these risks, and there's inadequate monitoring of these risks themselves. My question is, has that increase in work to have proper measures and monitoring shown up in the budget, and if so, where, and how much?

I have a second question, too.

[RAdm Patrick Finn]

I was involved in creating the report you're quoting from. It was at a time when we had just come through the first attempt for ships. The coast guard had tried two attempts to benchmark patrol vessels, taking a historical, competitive approach, as we would do for other commodities. It really did not deliver the kind of contract and ability to do it. It was that work that caused us to pause and actually develop the shipbuilding strategy. The 100 million person-hours versus 70 million person-hours was a very macro measurement without having done any of the design work of what we thought it would require.

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Could you go right to my question, please, on the dollars for addressing the absence of key measures and monitoring?

[RAdm Patrick Finn]

Okay.

In the Auditor General's report that came out this week—and we work with them extensively—one of the findings was that in fact National Defence and Public Works are working to acquire the ships in a timely and affordable manner, consistent with the strategy. They have highlighted that there are risks around a cost; we acknowledge it, and in fact shared that information with them. The point of implementing the strategy is to actually improve the facilities and the capability in Canada—

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Excuse me, I'm sorry to interrupt. I'm really looking...are there dollars and cents in these supplementary estimates to increase the work of putting in place measures and monitoring? That's really all I wanted to know: yes or no and how much?

And then I have another question.

[RAdm Patrick Finn]

It's not specifically in the estimates, but yes, it is in the work that we're doing....