National Defence Committee on March 12th, 2021

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

In the first incident that you reported in February—not the red room incident, but the first one—when was that incident supposed to have occurred? It got reported later on in time than when it immediately happened, so was there an indication? What was the indication of the time that it had occurred and then was subsequently reported to you?

[LCdr Raymond Trotter]

Ma'am, are you speaking about the actual act of the sexual misconduct or the report that came to me?

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

I am speaking about the actual act.

[LCdr Raymond Trotter]

Again, because the matter is with the Canadian Forces national investigation service, and I have an obligation to the complainant, if I get into any detail, I could be put in a position where I'm either breaching CFNIS—

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Is it a matter of years or months?

[LCdr Raymond Trotter]

That, again, ma'am, I am going to have to refer to CFNIS.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karen McCrimmon]

I'm sorry. Unfortunately your time is up.

Mr. Robillard, you have the floor.

[Yves Robillard, Liberal, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

LCdr Trotter, thank you for your service, and I thank you for being here today. I'd also like to thank you for your courage and for your sense of duty. You're a role model for all officers to be allies to survivors, and for that I thank you as well.

Now, here's my question. According to the Canadian Armed Forces, The Path to Dignity and Respect strategy was created to move Operation HONOUR towards a broader, more sustained institutional approach focused on culture change within the Canadian Armed Forces.

Do you think initiatives like Operation HONOUR have changed the underlying culture of the Canadian Armed Forces with respect to sexual misconduct? If so, why, and if not, why not?

[LCdr Raymond Trotter]

Sir, I can speak to my experiences and I'll keep it to that.

I think Operation Honour is a step in the right direction. It has enabled people who would otherwise potentially feel uncomfortable by giving them a platform.

In recent history, the #MeToo movement and how it played out in Hollywood, how it's played out in other industries about sexual misconduct.... Operation Honour was a step in the right direction, but in my humble opinion, we are at a turning point now where we've put it on paper. We've said this is what the policy is, but it's going to take the courage of a lot of individuals to step forward to really delve into the issues and solve the problem, once we can get to a point of solving the problem.

[Yves Robillard, Liberal, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

According to the Canadian Armed Forces, The Path to Dignity and Respect strategy includes a new performance measurement framework that will be used to assess the effectiveness of the strategy during its implementation. How are members and leaders of the Canadian Armed Forces being made aware of The Path to Dignity and Respect strategy? Would you say that the Canadian Armed Forces are giving priority to its implementation?

[LCdr Raymond Trotter]

Sir, I believe the Canadian Armed Forces is prioritizing its implementation, but I think your question is referring to how management and leadership are passing the information with respect to, say, the analytics that fall out of OPHTAS: where the problem areas are, how we can address them, how we can tackle them.

I think it is well above my pay grade to answer that question. That's probably at the L1 or L0 level, to speak about that sort of topic.

[Yves Robillard, Liberal, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

To what extent are actions that contribute positively to the achievement of the strategy's objectives reflected in the performance evaluation?

[LCdr Raymond Trotter]

I'm sorry, sir. I'm going to have to ask you to rephrase that question because I didn't completely understand. I don't want to give you the wrong answer.

[Yves Robillard, Liberal, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

To what extent are actions that contribute positively to the achievement of the strategy's objectives reflected in the performance evaluation?

[LCdr Raymond Trotter]

Again, I want to answer this. When you speak about performance evaluations, which performance evaluations are you speaking about: an individual's personnel evaluation at the end of the year, or the evaluation of an op task itself?

[Yves Robillard, Liberal, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

I mean the first one.

[LCdr Raymond Trotter]

I don't know, and I haven't seen necessarily in other peoples' personnel evaluation reports about Operation Honour or the implementation of it.

I really can't speak to that because those evaluations are protected B information, but I can't recall ever seeing mentions about metrics or how people were performing in those areas.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karen McCrimmon]

Thank you.

[Yves Robillard, Liberal, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

Thank you, sir.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karen McCrimmon]

We'll move to Mr. Fortin.

Before we continue, Lieutenant-Commander, could you just move your mike up slightly, so that it's slightly above your mouth, rather than right at mouth level? The interpreters are getting a popping sound when the mike is right in front of the mouth. If you could just move it up slightly, then they won't get that popping sound. It'll be a lot easier on their ears.

I'll ask the same of you, Mr. Robillard.

It's the same problem.

Thank you.

We'll move to Mr. Fortin.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

LCdr Trotter, why did the person who initially complained come to you? Did you already know her?

[LCdr Raymond Trotter]

Yes sir, I did know her from previous service. We have a really good professional and personal connection. I can't get into her head, but she felt that she could trust me with the information.

Yes, I did know her, but about the how.... I don't want to get into that because, again—

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

No problem.

To your knowledge, is this the only time this person has complained about a similar situation?

[LCdr Raymond Trotter]

Sir, could you rephrase that? Do you mean this situation or multiple situations?

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

I don't know how else to ask you the question. Perhaps you should ask the interpreter to rephrase it.

To your knowledge, is this the only time this person has complained about a similar situation?