Evidence of meeting #23 for National Defence in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was investigation.
A video is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Cheryl Gallant Conservative Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON
When this issue was brought to your attention, did you ask the national security adviser about what actions or a possibility that there could be a problem there...?
Liberal
Harjit S. Sajjan Liberal Vancouver South, BC
Madam Chair, I'm sorry. I don't understand the question.
Conservative
Cheryl Gallant Conservative Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON
When allegations came forth when the CDS was first being appointed, the national security adviser was asked about the possibility of there being inappropriate communications. Did you make such an action? Did you consult the national security adviser?
Liberal
Harjit S. Sajjan Liberal Vancouver South, BC
No, Madam Chair. As I stated, I passed on the information to the Privy Council Office for them to decide.
I think in this case here the member might be confusing the two issues, because in 2015 there was an investigation that was launched under the previous government where the national security adviser was involved.
In this case here, it was because you're passing it to the appropriate people at the Privy Council Office. They would then decide where exactly the information needs to go, whether they chose the option of going to the national security adviser or if they wanted to go the CFNIS or if they wanted to go to the RCMP. It would be done independently.
Conservative
Cheryl Gallant Conservative Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON
Thank you very much, Minister.
On February 19, you said that the allegations against General Vance were currently under investigation by the CFNIS. If they're the proper authority for investigations, why did you send the allegations to PCO in March 2018 instead of consulting the CFNIS directly?
Liberal
Harjit S. Sajjan Liberal Vancouver South, BC
Madam Chair, in this case here, first of all, the former ombudsman could have gone directly to the CFNIS, but because the information that the ombudsman had...I wanted to make sure that it went to an independent body to take a look at, so that it could go exactly to where it needed to go—
Liberal
Harjit S. Sajjan Liberal Vancouver South, BC
—completely independent of any type of political interference.
Conservative
Cheryl Gallant Conservative Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON
On March 12, you said you advised Mr. Walbourne exactly what to do. You said he should use existing powers and processes to address the complaint. If the CFNIS is the only public investigation body, why is it you didn't have him go directly there, as opposed to the PCO? Are the PCO investigations for ones that you want to keep hidden from the public?
Liberal
Harjit S. Sajjan Liberal Vancouver South, BC
Madam Chair, I completely disagree with the assertion that the member just made at the end.
However, I asked, “Why didn't you take it to CFNIS?” It doesn't matter, regardless of rank or position and...should not even accompany.... so that it could be done independently of a minister.
In this case, because we took it so seriously, rather than just waiting to see if the former ombudsman would go...I actually took it to the Privy Council Office, through my chief of staff, to make sure a proper follow-up was done so that it can never, ever be seen that—
Conservative
Liberal
Harjit S. Sajjan Liberal Vancouver South, BC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
...so that it could never, ever be the perception that somebody held on to information. I wanted to make sure that it was given proper process but at the same time transparency, making sure that it went to the appropriate authorities so that something could be—
Conservative
Cheryl Gallant Conservative Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON
Madam Chair, we've heard this part of the response before.
With respect to sexual misconduct, does it apply to soldiers in the Canadian Armed Forces who are being trained from other countries? Are trainees from other countries subject to the same sexual misconduct rules as the Canadian Armed Forces?
Liberal
Harjit S. Sajjan Liberal Vancouver South, BC
Madam Chair, could the member clarify the question? In what context? What other militaries are you talking about?
Conservative
Cheryl Gallant Conservative Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON
There were complaints in 2018 brought before you of trainees, people the CAF were training, showing their cellphone videos of these very same trainees raping civilians. I just want to know, do the rules that apply to the Canadian Armed Forces also apply to the people that they're training as part of their mission?
Liberal
Harjit S. Sajjan Liberal Vancouver South, BC
Madam Chair, the member just stated that I was shown video. I want to make it very clear—
Conservative
Cheryl Gallant Conservative Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON
No, I did not. I said that the soldiers were shown video.
Liberal
Liberal
Harjit S. Sajjan Liberal Vancouver South, BC
One thing I can assure you of is that everybody's held to account, regardless.
Liberal
Yvan Baker Liberal Etobicoke Centre, ON
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Minister, my first question is to you. When the former ombudsman met with you in 2018 to indicate that there were allegations regarding General Vance, my understanding is you've indicated here at committee that the Privy Council Office and the Prime Minister's Office were immediately notified.
Members on this committee today have indicated that the Prime Minister knew about these allegations. I guess I wanted to ask if you could clarify. Did the Prime Minister know about those allegations?
Liberal
Harjit S. Sajjan Liberal Vancouver South, BC
Madam Chair, as I stated before, the PM learned the specifics of the allegations when they came out in the media. However, he knew that his office was aware in 2018 of the actions that were taken.
Liberal
Yvan Baker Liberal Etobicoke Centre, ON
Thank you.
My next question is to Lieutenant-General Eyre.
Lieutenant-General, there are tremendous reproductive impacts for women because of the environments that they often need to serve in. For example, there are higher rates of miscarriage and infertility that often go unacknowledged. One of the ways to address this is through increased spending on research and development activity to understand the impacts on women and how we address them.
I'm wondering whether you agree that that's something that the Canadian Armed Forces needs to do. If so, how do we make that happen?
