Evidence of meeting #16 for National Defence in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was issues.
A recording is available from Parliament.
5:35 p.m.
Ombudsman, National Defence and Canadian Armed Forces Ombudsman
As I said, of the types of complaints we receive, the highest ones over the 23 years of our existence are always benefits. It would be the same in the grievance process.
5:35 p.m.
Conservative
Jamie Schmale Conservative Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON
Okay.
When you need to reach out to the department itself, how reactive is the chain of command, or even the minister, to remedy some of these issues, depending on the severity and type, etc.?
5:35 p.m.
Ombudsman, National Defence and Canadian Armed Forces Ombudsman
As I've said to a number of you already in our one-on-one briefs, when we have a complex case that we investigate, which could be one or two issues involved in it, or a very complex singular one—and those complex cases are certainly not all of the 14,000 calls we get in a year—when we investigate and we find that the situation is unfair for the individual, and we make a recommendation to the department, over the last five years, 100% of those have been accepted and implemented or are in the process of being implemented.
I've said to many of you that it's based on the respect that our investigative work receives, but I believe it's also that there are a lot of good people who want to do the right thing in the department. That's my belief.
5:35 p.m.
Conservative
Jamie Schmale Conservative Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON
This might be a bit of a strange question. I'd understand if it is, but I'm curious. Out of the grievances, as you mentioned, that were able to be resolved, do you know any off the top of your head that resulted in punishment in the ranks or demotions or anything like that?
5:35 p.m.
Ombudsman, National Defence and Canadian Armed Forces Ombudsman
We have to remember that a grievance a member brings forward is typically in the area of benefits. They believe they are entitled to a benefit. It is not a part of the disciplinary process. That is a separate process altogether.
A grievance is something where you feel you've been treated unfairly or you're owed a benefit, and you're asking for the decision-maker to look at your case and decide whether you should receive that benefit or receive a service, whatever it might be. It is not part of the disciplinary process.
5:35 p.m.
Liberal
5:35 p.m.
Liberal
Darren Fisher Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you to the ombudsman and his team for joining us today and for their expert testimony.
I was listening to the questions and listening to your opening statement. It focused on the fact that you deal more with issues that would cause someone to leave the military. I'm wondering if you're able to take any data from what you hear through grievances and apply it to the process to provide answers on how we might do better with recruitment. I'm flipping it around a bit. I'm wondering if you can take anything from those things—they're not exit interviews, but potentially grievance issues that lead to an exit.
Is there a way of flipping that upside down and finding a way to improve our recruitment process?
5:35 p.m.
Ombudsman, National Defence and Canadian Armed Forces Ombudsman
Certainly. When we receive a complaint, or even a request for information, a lot of the information fills our analysis of trends. In this case, we are always looking at these complaints and requests for information and the actual investigations that may be carried out as a result of those complaints, and we're looking at those trends to see if there are some systemic issues in there that we need to look at more deeply. That fills our systemic investigation plan.
In this case, I've just sent off to the minister a report on compassionate postings and compassionate status. It was a particular area that I was hearing about not only when I went to various bases and wings, but also in the complaints and requests for information that we receive on our phone lines, in our emails and so on. That told us there was a particular issue there. Perhaps the policy wasn't being properly interpreted or it was inconsistent across the country and people were being treated unfairly.
That report is with the minister now. It will come out in the late April/May period publicly. In there will be some recommendations around how people should be treated.
We will do the same thing for recruitment if we see that there are particular issues there. The main issue we have seen, and Robyn can speak in detail to it, is the long delays that we receive complaints about. I haven't been able to get an answer.
Those are the typical issues we hear, as well as some areas where people feel they have been unfairly denied access to becoming a member of the military. However, definitely delay is the most common one.
5:40 p.m.
Liberal
Darren Fisher Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS
Thank you for that. That's helpful.
This may not be a fair question to ask the two of you, but when it comes to retention and people's decisions to leave the CAF, how much of that would be based on negative issues that might lead to grievances, and how much of it might be better pay from the private sector or the decision that they don't want to move the family anymore or things like that? What percentage of the people leaving the CAF would be leaving for issues under the grievance file rather than other issues?
5:40 p.m.
Ombudsman, National Defence and Canadian Armed Forces Ombudsman
It's a very difficult one for us to answer. The commander of military personnel would be the best person to answer that type of question.
Certainly, in the types of requests for information we get, or in complaints, we definitely see areas.... We will generally receive the ones where people feel they've been treated unfairly. We don't generally receive a complaint about a person leaving because they want to go to another job. We don't get those types of complaints because they're not really complaints.
In the complaints that we do receive, we see various areas where either there are family issues and they cannot deal effectively with the family situation and continue to be a member of the military, or they cannot access health care appropriately and need to stay in the area where their children, spouse or partner can be taken of.
There are a variety of reasons why people will leave the military. It's certainly in the realm of the commander of military personnel to be able to best answer what the trends are in that area.
5:40 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal John McKay
We're going to have to leave it there, Mr. Fisher.
Ombudsman Lick and Ms. Hynes, on behalf of the committee I want to thank you for your contribution to this study. It's been very useful and we appreciate your time.
Colleagues, we stand adjourned.