National Defence Committee on Nov. 22nd, 2022

[Neil O'Rourke]

Absolutely. The Canadian Forces are also part of Canada's national search and rescue program. In principle, if there was a problem, there would probably be a Hercules transport aircraft that would go up there and drop off personnel and equipment until the ships arrived. However, we certainly couldn't proceed with the rescue of hundreds of people without having ships to transport them.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

I understand.

Have there been any incidents like this or anything close to a situation like the one you mentioned?

[Neil O'Rourke]

There have been similar incidents. The largest recent search and rescue operation took place in 2018. It involved the passenger ship Akademik Ioffe, but it happened much further south and it was not the same situation at all. However, there were still a few hundred people at risk on that ship. In the end, the situation had a happy ending.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

There were no consequences.

I don't know if it was you or Mr. Wight who alluded to the fact that the CCGS Louis S. St‑Laurent would not be replaced until 2030. Did I hear that correctly?

Is there a contingency plan if this Canadian Coast Guard icebreaker cannot remain in service until 2030?

[Neil O'Rourke]

In principle, there is indeed a contingency plan, which is the interim capacity and life extension of the vessel, which we are working on. We know the ship very well, because it has been in service for over 50 years. We are confident that with this work we will be able to keep it in service until 2030.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Ms. Mathyssen, you have two and a half minutes, please.

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to go back to the question that I wasn't able to get in or that you didn't have time to answer. You mentioned that you are supplementing your fleet with third party vessels. How do you ensure that they have the training that's required? Do you need more supports for that, or is it sort of a take-it-as-it-comes kind of situation?

[Robert Wight]

The vessels that we are contracting out for that are southern vessels as opposed to northern vessels. They would operate principally along the St. Lawrence River. Within the contract that we let, we specify that they meet Transport Canada guidelines in order to operate within Canadian waters. They are independent from us; we are just contracting them.

Typically, we cascade our vessels in such as way that these are smaller. They are given things like breaking out ferries, or breaking across ferries, while our bigger ships may be taking a larger ship down and breaking a track for it down the St. Lawrence or across the Gulf. When we have more ice than we can deal with, we contract with the smaller ships and they do the smaller stuff for us.

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

So that doesn't happen in the north where there are potential dangers in any way, shape or form?

[Robert Wight]

No, we do not contract for third parties in the north.

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Okay, that's good to know.

We heard at the last meeting about the Nanisivik Naval Facility. Do you have a lot to do with that station? It's not open that often—I think only four weeks of the year. With regard to the money that's being put into it and the expectations of it, how do you work with that station and how can we ensure that it's more useful to you?

[Neil O'Rourke]

The Nanisivik refuelling station is not yet open. The plan is that it's going to be open for a period of time, maybe four or eight weeks, depending.... As you are well aware, it's a DND project through and through. From the Canadian Coast Guard perspective, though, we've actually been using that location for years to lay down equipment, especially for some of the operations that we have to do in the high Arctic.

The way that we are working with the navy and DND is that we will also use it as a refuelling station, and we will in fact close down the refuelling station towards the end of the season because we are typically up there longer than the navy is. We have an agreement with the navy that we will close down to take the fuel out at the end of the season. That's essentially the relationship.

At this point in time, we aren't using the facility for refuelling. Right now, we essentially refuel ship to ship in the north, and we're going to be able to at least remove some of that ship-to-ship refuelling that occurs today by using the Nanisivik facility once it's open.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you, Ms. Mathyssen.

Ms. Rempel Garner, welcome to the committee. You have five minutes.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you for being here. Earlier in testimony, I think I heard something about how your agency may have to rely on Russia for rescue should a major incident requiring rescue occur if your agency didn't have the capacity to reach the vessel. Is that correct?

[Neil O'Rourke]

To reframe, it's not that we would need Russia's assistance, but if something is happening at the confluence of where our areas of responsibility are, which is the North Pole, we would likely need multiple countries to respond. It's really specifically with regard to an incident at the North Pole. I don't think any of the Arctic countries has the capability alone to take care of it.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Has your department conducted any analysis on how likely this is to occur?

[Neil O'Rourke]

I don't think we have detailed assessments. Essentially, at this point in time, we've seen this year two cruise ships go out for the first time. One of them went last year but with no passengers.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Is there a reason why you don't have regular analysis of the likelihood of an event like this ever occurring?

[Neil O'Rourke]

It really comes down to the fact that we've had three ships go up there, ever. It's something we would do in the future as we would see increasing vessel traffic, but right now there haven't really been any vessels transiting.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

In what timeframe are you anticipating increased vessel traffic to the point where that type of regular analysis would occur?

[Neil O'Rourke]

It would be hard to say. We do kind of informal risk analysis at all times. We have a very detailed system for search and rescue called the RAMSARD, which we use as a tool to look across the north. That's something that we're going to be launching in the Arctic for the first time as of next year.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Is our existing fleet of surveillance equipment ships etc. adequate to meet the potential demand of, let's say, 10 to 15 years in the future in that type of scenario?

[Neil O'Rourke]

Right now most of our monitoring is not actually done using the ships themselves. They do have communication equipment, but we use satellite-based and shore-based technologies. Yes, we do believe so, as the OAG report has pointed out, and we certainly provide some leadership in the federal family around the Arctic maritime security strategy.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Has anyone in your department provided advice to the government regarding contingency plans should the existing fleet of key satellite ships or aircraft cease to operate before they are replaced?