National Defence Committee on Sept. 28th, 2023

[Gen Wayne D. Eyre]

For the reserve force, it is 7,605. If you add that up, it's just shy of 16,000 short in the total force.

The important figure on the regular force side is the difference between our trained effective establishment and our trained effective strength, or those we can put out the door to do the job. Right now that number is 10,489 as of the end of last month. Those people are in the training system but they're not ready for operations yet.

This is something that we watch very closely. It speaks to the need to continue to bring people in. I can talk about some other successes we've had and how we're cautiously optimistic, at this point—

[Shelby Kramp-Neuman, Conservative, Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON]

Fair enough.

[Gen Wayne D. Eyre]

—if you wish.

[Shelby Kramp-Neuman, Conservative, Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON]

Perhaps I'll lead right into the next question.

Back in February, earlier this year, I posed a question outlining the need for the retention of CAF from highly technical domains such as cyberspace, including the addition of 120 new military intelligence positions and 180 new civilian intelligence positions.

I asked if this goal had been effectively achieved and what the numbers are in this particular domain, if you're familiar with them. We were hoping to get some of those numbers circled back. I'm just wondering if you have those.

[Gen Wayne D. Eyre]

I don't have the exact numbers for those occupations, but those technical occupations are ones that we're very concerned about. They have highly marketable skills. There's a shortage across our country, and we just see the general labour shortage writ large in the country, especially skilled labour in those fields. It's hard to hold on to people.

I am happy to report that I got good news today. Our attrition rate overall is down to 7.1% and back within historical norms. For a while over the pandemic, we were up to 9.1% or 9.2%, which was of concern. This again feeds into my narrative of being cautiously optimistic.

[Shelby Kramp-Neuman, Conservative, Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON]

The question I'd like to pose next is this: How much of that was relevant to letting people go with regard to COVID?

[Gen Wayne D. Eyre]

That is for this fiscal year, so it's zero.

[Shelby Kramp-Neuman, Conservative, Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON]

Okay. That's fair enough.

I'll go to my next question. Changing gears here, the government has recently announced budget cuts to DND. Given the discussion here today—we're talking about how personnel shortages are apparent and equipment shortages are more than clear and abundant—how are the additional funding cuts going to impact the armed forces' ability to serve and protect Canadians?

[Gen Wayne D. Eyre]

There's no way that you can take almost a billion dollars out of the defence budget and not have an impact, so this is something that we're wrestling with now. I had a very difficult session this afternoon with the commanders of the various services as we attempt to explain this to our people. Our people see the degrading, declining security situation around the world, so trying to explain this to them is very difficult.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Madam Lambropoulos, you have five minutes, please.

[Emmanuella Lambropoulos, Liberal, Saint-Laurent, QC]

Thank you, Chair.

I also have a couple of questions with regard to retention and recruitment.

First, are there exit interviews when people leave and choose to leave the forces? I believe we've asked this before. I can't remember what the answer was.

[Gen Wayne D. Eyre]

Yes, there are. We are doing that more and more systematically. We have had exit surveys as well to determine the reasons.

I will say the reasons are multi-faceted, ranging from family to.... There are push-and-pull factors. The pull factors are with the economy for sure, with the very tight labour market. The push factors are family, career paths and unwillingness to move—the desire for geographic stability. Every story is somewhat different, but there are a number of themes that are out there.

One of the things that we are working to get better at is to have that conversation before the individual makes the decision to release, to see what we can do, bringing in a philosophy of a much more individualized career path so that we don't have to have the cookie-cutter, post-Korean War, 1950s industrial age personnel management system, but have something that's more fit for the 21st century. The challenge we have is geography. The vast majority of our population comes from urban locations. The vast majority of our operational bases are rural or, as the commander of the navy recently reminded me, in high-priced areas on the coast.

[Emmanuella Lambropoulos, Liberal, Saint-Laurent, QC]

Thank you for seeing that my next question would have been on what the main reasons are why people leave.

You mentioned family. This is somewhat where I wanted to head with this question. Canadians across the country are increasingly facing affordability issues. The general population is having a hard time finding a place to live, finding health care, finding a family doctor and finding child care nearby. I'm assuming that the population and the members of the Canadian Armed Forces also have similar requests, situations and needs that they need to have met in order to make sure their families are well taken care of.

I was wondering if there have been any improvements in the last couple of years as to what social services are accessible to families, and what you're doing on health care as well in terms of the families of CAF members.

[Gen Wayne D. Eyre]

Mr. Chair—

[Emmanuella Lambropoulos, Liberal, Saint-Laurent, QC]

I was going to ask about housing, but that was already answered, so I'll stick to these.

[Gen Wayne D. Eyre]

Mr. Chair, I was going to say that housing continues to be a challenge. In fact, it's been an increasing challenge over the last number of years.

On health care, finding family doctors is something that every Canadian is challenged with, but more so our people as they move more frequently and go to the bottom of waiting lists. This is something we're trying to address.

Canadian Forces Morale and Welfare Services has brought in a number of initiatives for some virtual family care with doctors who are experimenting with that. We are working with provinces through the Seamless Canada initiative to try to protect places on those waiting lists so that our people, as they move, are not automatically at the bottom of the list.

There are a number of initiatives ongoing, but it is still a challenge. Any help that you could provide would be greatly welcomed.

[Emmanuella Lambropoulos, Liberal, Saint-Laurent, QC]

You're saying there are efforts being made with provincial counterparts in order to make sure that they have some kind of priority when they're serving in a particular area.

[Gen Wayne D. Eyre]

We're trying.

[Bill Matthews]

To make that more real, when I go and visit bases and wings, I hear “housing” and I hear “medical care”.

Your average stint might be two or three years in a location before you have to move. If you picture a world where you have a child who needs a specialist, it takes some time to line that up. You hear a lot of cases of someone just finding a specialist and then they are moving to the province next door and have to start over.

That is one of the big drivers on retention.

[Emmanuella Lambropoulos, Liberal, Saint-Laurent, QC]

Thank you very much.

Another factor that was raised earlier was the fact that just this summer, with all of the natural disasters that have been taking place and the need for personnel to be going toward these issues and helping out Canadians, is that this is going to be something we're facing more and more as time goes on. At the same time, the geopolitical climate is only getting worse as well. Clearly, there are going to be very big demands in both of these realms.

We mentioned making sure that we're aware of the profound impact these demands have on the members of the Canadian Armed Forces. Are there mental health supports that are increasing in terms of the fact that, more and more, we're requiring their services and, more and more, stressful situations are arising? Have we tried to maintain what they are receiving in services for mental health?

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Unfortunately, we're way past the time. We'll have to leave it there. I'm sure you'll be able to work it back into another question.

Ms. Normandin, you have two and a half minutes.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you very much.

General Eyre, I'd like to come back to peacekeeping missions.

If I'm not mistaken, in the spring, the number of Canadians deployed on peacekeeping missions was about 58. Could you give me the current or approximate figure? Is it still the same number?

[Gen Wayne D. Eyre]

Mr. Chair, I think the number is about the same.

As I've said before, the truth changes over time, but I think the number of people is almost the same.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

In the spring, given the number of resources available and the pressure on operations such as Unifier and Reassurance, it was impossible for Canada to intervene in Haiti.

Is that still the case?

[Gen Wayne D. Eyre]

We continue to work with our federal government partners on the situation in Haiti and with our allies to find a solution and support the efforts of other agencies. However, it's very difficult to have a response force.

We need to find a long-term solution for this country that includes policies, political and economic systems, and security.