National Defence Committee on May 4th, 2026

[Debbie Eisan]

Yes. I had the great opportunity throughout my career to be an adviser to Bold Eagle, but I also stood up Black Bear, Raven and the indigenous leadership opportunity year as the adviser.

The important part of those programs was, yes, to recruit, but it was also to understand that we're bringing indigenous men and women into an organization that they know nothing about. It was important to have, number one, a culture camp at the beginning to bring them together to start working as a team, but to also have indigenous counsellors and elders as part of those programs to help with homesickness, to help with adjusting, to help with meals—especially for Inuit coming from the north, down to the south, the food is different—and to understand how that works.

These programs are important for those individuals who want to just try out the military. There's no obligation to join, notwithstanding the fact that, if they absolutely knew they wanted to join and knew about the military, they don't have to go through these programs. However, the important part is to have the cultural representation there to help them through issues.

[The Chair, Liberal, Charles Sousa]

Meegwetch, Ms. Eisan.

Mr. Jacques Gourde, welcome to the committee. It's over to you.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lévis—Lotbinière, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the two witnesses for being here.

My first question is for Ms. Eisan.

Does the goal of defending Canada's north take into account the expertise, know-how and knowledge of the land that indigenous armed forces members have?

Can they make a difference?

[Debbie Eisan]

There are two parts.

Number one is having the indigenous member identify as being indigenous. A lot of the time it's important to understand that they won't identify for various reasons, unless they visually look indigenous, like I do, but some don't.

If they identify as indigenous, especially for up north, you won't have a first nations member from Batchewana, like me, identifying that, “Oh, I'm an expert in the north.” I couldn't do that. Those individuals who are Inuit from up north, they are looking for specifics to help integrate into the north. For those—especially in my position, where I may not know about survival in the north—I can say, “I know where I can connect you to people who know about survival in the north.” It's about sharing that knowledge.

As first nations and indigenous people, we don't assume that we know everything. We know that we can point you in the right direction where you can find out the information that you need.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lévis—Lotbinière, QC]

Thank you very much.

[Debbie Eisan]

Thank you.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lévis—Lotbinière, QC]

My next question is for Ms. MacIsaac.

In your presentation, you underscored the importance of French in the Canadian Armed Forces. Can you talk more about that? What did you mean by that?

[Becky MacIsaac]

I'd like to thank the member for his question, Mr. Chair.

Obviously, as members of a team, we have to be able to communicate with one another. It's crucial to communicate with all members of the team, including subordinates, and to lead by example. I've met other students, instructors and leaders who can speak both languages. What's more, instructions are normally given in both languages. Government emails, for instance, are also sent in both languages. We are clearly in a bilingual environment, a bilingual country.

When training begins, it is simply important to encourage everyone to learn their second language, to start teaching them that language and to give them opportunities to use it.

There aren't enough opportunities for everyone to take the training. Only certain people have the opportunity to become bilingual. That's a problem. If we want everyone to be able to communicate in both languages, they have to have access to classes and immersion opportunities in Quebec or other bilingual communities, so they can keep up their fluency in both languages.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lévis—Lotbinière, QC]

On an international exchange with France, for example, do francophone CAF members work with their French counterparts in French, or do they speak English?

[Becky MacIsaac]

When I was in Kosovo, about 30 other countries had a presence there, with members from France and Switzerland, but also Germans who could speak French. The operational language day to day was English, but a lot of languages were routinely spoken at camp. I think it's always useful to speak French both at home and abroad.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lévis—Lotbinière, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Charles Sousa]

Thank you, Mr. Gourde.

Ms. Lapointe, it's over to you for five minutes.

[Viviane LaPointe, Liberal, Sudbury, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Ms. Eisan, my northern Ontario colleague, the member of Parliament for Sault Ste. Marie, speaks highly about the work the Mi'kmaw Native Friendship Centre does in communities. I want to thank you for the work you do for them.

From your work with indigenous veterans, do you think there are some additional challenges that we should be aware of? Are there policies or programs that we could put in place to help the armed forces better support indigenous members while they are serving?

[Debbie Eisan]

Yes, I think we could. It has to be a carry-over. While they're serving, it's important for the Canadian Armed Forces to let indigenous members know that there are other options for them out there.

For example, I know that the bases now have areas where you can smudge. In Halifax, I've outfitted all ships with smudge kits. Individuals can go to the coxswain's office, for example, if they need to have a smudge. Smudge is a ceremony that we do for cleansing. It's important for that to be available for indigenous members to be able to do that.

The other thing is to support the sweat lodges that are now opening up across the country. In Halifax, before I got out, we managed to get a sweat lodge set up at the Shearwater base. The sweat lodges are working great for the indigenous people there.

The other aspect that I mentioned in my briefing is about cultural awareness. If we don't start sharing cultural awareness, then it's that young person in the army, in the navy.... Racism and discrimination are not accepted in the Canadian Armed Forces, but it's still alive and well. What happens is that it's not accepted and it goes underground. It goes down to the decks and into the messes. You can't fight an enemy that you can't see.

This is important for us to understand. That cultural awareness goes a long way to making sure that the young indigenous person, whether they join the army, navy or air force, knows that cultural awareness is there and they have avenues if something happens. When they come out of the military, it's important for Veterans Affairs and the Assembly of First Nations—the First Nations Veterans Council is working now with Veterans Affairs—to try to alleviate those barriers for indigenous veterans when they retire.

Thank you.

[Viviane LaPointe, Liberal, Sudbury, ON]

During this study, we've heard that the recruitment system is currently in profound transformation. We've had some witnesses come forward and tell us about that. What changes are you seeing that are already improving the consistency and the building of trust for recruits?

[Debbie Eisan]

Personally, I'm not seeing a whole lot of changes. I'm seeing a lot of things going backwards. They're not having indigenous recruiters go into communities. That needs to happen. They need to see someone who can be in their shoes, “If you can do that, I can do that.”

They need more paper application options. They're applying online, but not every community has Internet access. They might not have mobile phones. It takes three hours through a dead area with no phone lines to get to my brother's community. They have to work harder at that to make it more visible.

On the bases, the wings, they need to have that knowledge-keeper guidance. I do that in Halifax in my role as honorary naval captain, but other places don't have that. Base commanders, wing commanders and admirals need someone they can go to when they're looking for advice on something, on an issue that has come up, when they're not sure if it's cultural or when they're not sure how to move forward with it. Knowledge-keepers would be able to help them with that.

Each base can have that, especially in the territories. It varies from Nova Scotia to B.C., and it varies from first nations to Métis to Inuit. The cultures and the spirituality are different, and they need to understand that.

[Viviane LaPointe, Liberal, Sudbury, ON]

Thank you for that testimony. It's important for us to hear where we're not doing well. That leads to really good recommendations in the study.

[The Chair, Liberal, Charles Sousa]

Ms. Lapointe, your time is up.

[Viviane LaPointe, Liberal, Sudbury, ON]

I didn't get to question Madam MacIsaac.

[The Chair, Liberal, Charles Sousa]

I'm so sorry.

Ms. Gallant, it's over to you for five minutes.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Algonquin—Renfrew—Pembroke, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

We heard about existing CAF initiatives to attract indigenous recruits to its ranks. You mentioned the ILOY program offered only at RMC, and the summer training program, which happens on bases throughout the country. However, there doesn't seem to be any initiative to bring these experiences—cadet corps and squadrons, The Navy League or Junior Canadian Rangers—on reserve so that they don't have to leave their communities.

Should the CAF focus on outreach on reserves, specifically ?

[Debbie Eisan]

The outreach should be on reserves to recruit for those bases. This happened to us. When we talk to the kids, the army cadets, about recruiting, it's a very fine line that you could cross. It looks as though you're going after the children to join the Canadian Armed Forces.

The experience in the army cadets, navy cadets and air cadets is good for discipline. They're good programs for the kids to do the things that they have to do to move forward, like time management and things like that. When it came to recruiting for the Canadian Armed Forces, we stayed away from where the children were. In my time, we did not want to be seen as recruiting children for the Canadian Armed Forces.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Algonquin—Renfrew—Pembroke, ON]

Is that why there is no outreach to the young people and no cadet corps on site?

[Debbie Eisan]

That's right. There is a group that looks after putting together army cadets, and they try to get them in the communities. However, for Canadian Armed Forces recruiting, we don't go to the cadets.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Algonquin—Renfrew—Pembroke, ON]

It's tough for the kids to get to the different communities that have cadet corps, so they're still isolated.