National Defence Committee on May 4th, 2026

[Debbie Eisan]

Exactly.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Algonquin—Renfrew—Pembroke, ON]

We heard from witnesses who worked at RMC. They said that a low number of graduates from the ILOY program go on to pursue a career in the CAF.

From your perspective and from the feedback you've heard, what's not drawing them back after completion of the program?

[Debbie Eisan]

I think a lot has to do with the cultural aspect of it as well, with their language, with the availability of ceremonies and so on and so forth, but also attachment to their communities. In our communities, when someone decides to go to a school to become a doctor or a lawyer, they'll go back to their communities and give back to their communities.

In the ILOY program, it's a year to bring up your marks to see if being an officer in the Canadian Armed Forces is something that you want to continue with, but also it's very strict and very strenuous. Right off the bat, they're put into a situation where they're following rules and regulations and so on and so forth, plus having to maintain their marks and move up. When that program was first developed, it was to see if we could try to get the kids to get their marks up, because the ILOY program helps them to bring their marks up so that they can succeed in RMC. It's a fine line, and now with the TRC happening and the education on truth and reconciliation and residential schools, people are starting to realize that they want to be more in their communities helping their communities.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Algonquin—Renfrew—Pembroke, ON]

Should the ILOY program be only hosted at RMC or should it be expanded to RMC Saint-Jean in Quebec?

[Debbie Eisan]

In my opinion it needs to stay at the Royal Military College because the ILOY program is a year at the college, and they get used to being at the Royal Military College. They have two elders there whom I know very well. They work very well with that group. If they're going to continue on for the four years that they're going to be at the Royal Military College, it's easier and better for it to stay at RMC rather than take them from Saint-Jean and say, “Okay, you're done here and now we're going to send you to Kingston.” It's a whole different there and they have to get used to a new city, a new way, new programs, new discipline. It needs to stay at RMC, in my opinion.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Algonquin—Renfrew—Pembroke, ON]

We heard from witnesses previously that indigenous ranks in the CAF are overwhelmingly part of the army compared to the RCAF or the navy.

How do we invigorate indigenous recruits into the navy?

[Debbie Eisan]

I've been trying to do that for 36 years.

In the history of our people, they've always joined the army, the infantry. They're snipers. They're trackers. They joined to do what they're good at doing. The navy is on the west coast and the east coast. If you're used to being in.... If you're a Newfoundlander, you're going to join the navy because you're used to that way of life. That's why there are very few indigenous people in Nova Scotia who have joined the navy. It's always army for everybody.

I think we have to start showing ourselves more what the navy is about and what we can do. I know this is something Admiral Topshee has done with the year-long program, and it's starting to be very successful.

[The Chair, Liberal, Charles Sousa]

Meegwetch.

[Debbie Eisan]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Charles Sousa]

I'm sensitive to time. I have Mr. Earle up next, then Mr. Savard-Tremblay, then Mr. Kibble, but I only have six minutes, so we'll try to be expedient.

Mr. Earle.

[Philip Earle, Liberal, Labrador, NL]

Thank you for your testimony. I've appreciated your being here and bringing it forward. I have two nephews in the navy in Halifax, so I'm going to speak to you afterwards. Both are indigenous.

I'm thinking about the CAF and how postings are done. I have been listening to your testimony this morning and considering the importance of that indigenous integration into the community. I don't come from a military background myself, but I described the connection I have. How important is it that when postings are done, if it is an indigenous person who is serving, they may be posted to a base that's in an indigenous homeland, such as Labrador at 5 Wing Goose Bay, in my case?

Would both of you like to comment on that?

[Becky MacIsaac]

I think that's extremely important for retention. As managers, we have to support the requests and wishes of indigenous people as much as possible. We have to support them, so they can be closer to their families and indigenous, Métis or Inuit communities. We just have to find solutions and really stand up for them.

[Debbie Eisan]

I agree with everything she just said. Retention is everything. If you're in your home community or close to your home community and you need that support or those ceremonies, they're right there for you. I agree with everything she just said.

[Philip Earle, Liberal, Labrador, NL]

Thank you for that.

Becky, you had a close connection with the Canadian Rangers from your posting in Gander. Knowing the Canadian Rangers as I do from my riding, the great work they do in imparting traditional knowledge, whether it's on a trail, a mountain, a lake, snow conditions, winter conditions, spring conditions and so on....

Is there a way, in your opinion, that we could bring more of the indigenous and cultural knowledge that can be imparted from the Canadian Rangers—primarily the Inuit—to the regular force so that cultural sensitivity is understood and better practices for the overall Canadian Armed Forces are brought forward from it?

[Becky MacIsaac]

Absolutely.

Search and rescue operations or air operations come to mind. Indigenous people and Inuit teach CAF members, including the Canadian Rangers and other units, how to survive in austere environments and how to respect first nations traditions.

For example, pilots can take a course on the Cold Lake weapons range taught by first nations instructors in Cold Lake. The range was part of the traditional territory of the Dene people. The course teaches pilots respect for the area and its history. They also spend a day on the land. They participate in ceremonies, learn how to fish in the lake and take part in other such practices.

Cultural exchanges are really important, so that members learn respect for the land and the survival skills needed in certain areas.

[Philip Earle, Liberal, Labrador, NL]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Charles Sousa]

Thank you, Mr. Earle.

I'm looking at the time. Mr. Savard-Tremblay and Mr. Kibble, we'll try to get in one question each.

Go ahead.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot—Acton, QC]

I'll be very quick.

We are talking a lot about the programs, and what's working and what isn't. My question is about what happens before that.

Does the Canadian Armed Forces consult the Assembly of First Nations beforehand?

[Debbie Eisan]

I do not believe they were consulted primarily. Now, with the standing up of the AFN Veterans Council, there is a representative from every province and territory. They are being consulted for advice and guidance on different things. There are elders to go to or knowledge-keepers to use in the different programs.

[The Chair, Liberal, Charles Sousa]

Thank you, Mr. Savard‑Tremblay.

We'll go to Mr. Kibble for the last one.

[Jeff Kibble, Conservative, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you for your service. As we say on the west coast, hych'ka.

Ms. Eisan, it was good to see you at the Battle of the Atlantic dinner on Thursday in Halifax. I know you're highly respected by navy leadership there.

We see that 20% of recruits are permanent residents—some are in Canada for as little as three months—and there's no language screening now to recruit in English or French. Based on your experience—this is for either of you—will this dilute both important indigenous representation and important French language levels in the Canadian Forces?

[Becky MacIsaac]

It's important to balance French and English and to ensure that recruits are able to communicate in one of the two official languages. In my career, I've come across a situation where an individual couldn't speak English very well and could not speak French at all. That person had a lot of trouble on deployment and was sent back to Canada because of it. They couldn't function in the operating environment.

[Jeff Kibble, Conservative, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Very quickly, maybe you could provide an indigenous perspective on that high number of permanent residents.

[Debbie Eisan]

From my perspective, like I said, English is paramount. I've taken French training, but I think it's more important to the person who moves across the country for the leadership to understand, as I was saying, the difference in saying “hello” and greeting someone in their language. That's what I try to learn as I move across the country. I don't speak it fluently. I try to at least acknowledge the territory and the language with the language of the place I'm in by saying “hello”, “thank you for having me” and those kinds of things.

Meegwetch.

[The Chair, Liberal, Charles Sousa]

Meegwetch, Ms. Eisan.