Evidence of meeting #16 for Natural Resources in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was cullen.
A recording is available from Parliament.
The Clerk
No, but that's adding all four helicopters together. For the first company, it's four four-seat helicopters at $1,750 each. I've added up the price and that---
Liberal
Roy Cullen Liberal Etobicoke North, ON
Can't we get one of those big Bell Helicopters that seats 12 or 15?
The Clerk
These are the companies that are there. From the second company we can get two five-seat helicopters at $1,575, but then you've got to pay oil, fuel, and GST per chopper per hour. Then we would need one other three-seater at $995 plus oil and fuel. From the third company we'd get a six-seater, a five-seater, and another five-seater. That would come up to about $9,900, and that's an hour and a half tour. My logistics person mentioned that if we want to go with this last group she feels it's the cheapest and they offer a tour over all five oil sands projects.
October 17th, 2006 / 4:40 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Lee Richardson
Okay. Our original budget request for this trip was how much?
It's $24,000, and this would take it to about $35,000 all in. Frankly, I don't think that's unreasonable, and I think it really does add to our understanding of the situation. I'm open for debate. What do you think, guys? Should we push for it and try to get that by the...?
Mr. Harris. You're not going anyway, so you'd be an unbiased observer.
Conservative
Conservative
Dick Harris Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC
I think it's kind of expensive. When it appears in The Hill Times or in the National Post, someone is going to have to explain how we spent $8,000 an hour for a helicopter. I don't want to have to do that.
Conservative
Liberal
Lloyd St. Amand Liberal Brant, ON
I have the same trepidation or relative discomfort with the cost as well. I'm happy to go, and I think a bus tour would be on balance just about as beneficial.
Liberal
Robert Thibault Liberal West Nova, NS
I understand, Richard.
We get these pressures, I know. But overall, in the whole thing, you have 308 parliamentarians who are making decisions on over $200 billion of expenditures a year, and a lot of those things are very important for the long run. If we're flying a cabinet minister to Toronto today, it's going to cost $40,000 to send them there and back.
I won't be there either, so I don't have the conflict, but you're looking at a dozen members of Parliament who will I think have their understanding of those vicinities, and the scope of it, and the size of it.... If you're interested in the environmental issues, both positively and negatively, I think it's important that you go up. If you look at the cost on the whole scheme of the thing, the cost to bring you up there plus for these highly paid administration people who are here, that's the big cost. On top of that, the additional money I think is probably value for money.
I was amazed when I saw it by helicopter. They chose where they brought me; I was Minister of Fisheries at the time and it was on environmental things. But to fly over what looks like an environmental wasteland, a disaster, where everything is black, and the Athabasca River is running through that and you can see absolutely right through it to see what.... They've done a really fantastic job environmentally on those things. I wouldn't have imagined without seeing it from a helicopter that was possible, that it was humanly possible.
So I would encourage you to let the chairman take the hit on the financing part of it.
NDP
Catherine Bell NDP Vancouver Island North, BC
Thank you.
I have two things. The first one is that I think you mentioned that the airplane costs are going to come off here, so that's almost the same amount as what we would be spending on a helicopter if we were to do that. Also, I've been in helicopters before and they are very noisy, and I don't know how you can have a conversation with anyone and ask questions back and forth.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Lee Richardson
Everybody has headphones. They do this commercially, and everybody has headphones on. It's not a problem.
Liberal
Roy Cullen Liberal Etobicoke North, ON
Think of how many times officials have swooped over there in helicopters, and every time an MP or a parliamentarian tries to do it, we all feel guilty.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Lee Richardson
Yes.
I have to say something on this. We padded the budget originally to take care of unforeseen circumstances. It won't be quite this high, but I have to agree with Mr. Thibault, having been there several times, that you just don't get the same impact from the ground, and you're not able to get around. This is over 50 square miles, so you're simply not able to do that on a bus.
I also think that if it was just to view the operations of Syncrude or of Suncor, or of any one plant, a bus ride would suffice. But I think it seems to be the growing consensus of the committee that you want to look at a whole lot more than that. You want to look at the economic, environmental, and social ramifications of this, and that would be, in my view, clearly better understood from a bird's eye view, so to speak.
Do we have any further comment? Mr. Trost.
Conservative
Bradley Trost Conservative Saskatoon—Humboldt, SK
I'll just say that we may as well end the discussion on this and vote on it; if the majority is in favour of it, then we'll all go for it. I think the majority is in favour of it, from the straw poll. There's no point in discussing it ad infinitum.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Lee Richardson
Fair enough, and I might just say that I am going to ask the clerk to tighten up the budget request a little bit so that it's maybe down around $30,000.
The clerk has a suggestion.
The Clerk
Essentially we need a motion to adopt the budget, and this is the way it's worded:
That the proposed budget in the amount of $24,412, for the Committee’s travel to Calgary and Fort McMurray on November 19 and 20, 2006, be adopted and that the Chair present the said budget to the Budget Subcommittee of the Liaison Committee
—and I've added the following part per the conversation in the committee—
and that the Clerk be authorized to modify the total amount to provide for the participation of Dennis Bevington and for the helicopter tour of the Oil Sands.
The last part is as it is because we don't have the specific numbers for the helicopter tour—but we need the motion to be adopted today.