Evidence of meeting #45 for Natural Resources in the 40th Parliament, 3rd session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was alberta.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Scott Andrews Liberal Avalon, NL
I have two quick questions.
The first is on protecting the fishery. We had Earle McCurdy here before the panel. What are your thoughts on how we have to protect the fishing industry, balancing oil and gas?
Second, you briefly mentioned the Cougar helicopter crash. I wonder if you could just say a little bit on the safety aspect of the offshore oil and gas and how important that is.
Mayor, Town of Bay Bulls
For 500 years the fishery has been the mainstay of the economy of Newfoundland. In recent years we have moved a fair distance from that. It's still a billion-dollar-plus industry, but we've moved away from groundfish and into shellfish for the most part. I think the fishery is a sustainable resource that, if managed properly, will be there for generations to come.
Right now in Newfoundland, most people who pursue the fishery pursue it for a very short time and with a limited number of species. Many year ago I worked in the fishery as a quality control manager, and at that time we processed 37 species of fish and we worked 52 weeks of the year at the plants where I was in charge. I would have to go to the office and plead my case around Christmas to get a week off to enjoy with my family. Those days have disappeared, but the fish are still there, I think. It's just that we have moved away from them into other directions. That is something with which I'm a bit disappointed. I think that the fishery still holds great potential.
With regard to the Cougar crash, again it comes down to a regulatory regime. I've read through some of the report. At a quick glance, there were 16 items that could have probably prevented that crash. There were 26 other items noted, and four recommendations, but at the end of the day we had a helicopter that flew offshore from Newfoundland that supposedly should have had 30 minutes of run-dry time and didn't.
I do not blame the pilots. The pilots probably were operating with improper information. They thought they had longer to get to shore and they didn't.
My brother, who was on that chopper, had always said, “Don't worry. We have safety mechanisms in hand.” I said, “ If you're 200 miles out there over the North Atlantic, what happens if a problem occurs?” He would always sort of grin and say, “No big deal. We've been trained. They'll put her down, we'll jump into the ocean, and somebody will come to get us.” He made light of it.
The thing that bothers me most of all is that he never had the opportunity to jump into the ocean. There were signals that said to put this chopper down. The protocols were there. They were not followed. Someone second-guessed it, and it was probably second-guessed because of false information. That still bothers me.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit
Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Andrews.
We go now to Madame Brunelle for up to seven minutes.
Bloc
Paule Brunelle Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC
Good afternoon gentlemen and welcome. It is a pleasure to meet you.
Mr. Staples, I want to start by congratulating you on your success. The companies you represent account for 62% of Alberta's GDP. That's a lot.
You called the current global trading environment resource-hungry. So that must put you in a difficult position because, as business people, you are trying to produce enough to meet the huge demand. But there are still major environmental challenges.
I am in favour of energy security, but not at any cost—not when it leads to environmental degradation. You mentioned in your presentation a project by the name of Caring for the Land. I would like to hear a bit more about that.
Given the project's name, I also want to know whether it is aimed at helping the environment. Are you accountable to the Alberta government to produce results? Do you have a strategic plan for the project?
Project Manager, Task Force on Resource Development and the Economy, Alberta Chamber of Resources
Madame, yes, as you point out, there are many challenges of being globally competitive with the development of our resources, so we attract capital to Canada. There are challenges to make sure that it is not development at any cost and that we do have that balanced development, that responsible development.
Lately one of the issues that has been on everyone's mind, of course, is reclamation of surface mines. We see in the oil sands that we're just at the very beginning of that reclamation process.
Together with some of our other mining companies, our coal-mining members, we produced a document “Caring for the Land”, which explains the whole reclamation process and the regulatory environment surrounding it. It presents some success stories of older mines that have been decommissioned and very successfully rehabilitated to support vegetation, wildlife, and wetlands, and these success stories really help to set the bar for reclamation in the future.
Paule Brunelle Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC
With such a project, surely you have an obligation to produce results. A culture of social responsibility must exist in Alberta, as it does in Quebec—the responsibility to be a good corporate citizen, as they say.
You represent 200 companies including operators, suppliers and advisors. Are you really the best people to look after the environment? Isn't that like the fox in the henhouse?
Project Manager, Task Force on Resource Development and the Economy, Alberta Chamber of Resources
Well, I don't have red hair, so I'm not sure if I qualify as a fox.
Project Manager, Task Force on Resource Development and the Economy, Alberta Chamber of Resources
I can tell you that everyone with whom I deal in industry is passionate about this topic. They're passionate that we do things properly and that Alberta and Canada will be as good for our grandchildren as it is for us.
Most of the operating companies produce environmental impact statements and ongoing accountability reports. One of our recommendations in the task force report you see here is that we work a little bit more on improving that process and doing international benchmarking. Some companies do it now, but we want to broaden that out across the industry.
So we're not really in a conflict of interest here; I think we're in a confluence of interest, where we try to bring together government, regulators, and industry to try to create that common vision, those success stories--the height of the bar--and create progress.
Executive Director, Alberta Chamber of Resources
Thank you.
That was a great answer.
The mayor made a comment that really struck me. It was about the “pride and confidence that come with prosperity”. I think I quoted him pretty closely there.
I really liked that, but I'd add one more bit, about the pride and confidence that come with doing the right thing--with prosperity and with doing the right thing.
A great example, which is in this brochure, is Suncor's recent reclamation of its Pond 1. I went to that event. My career for nearly 30 years has been mostly in oil sands, and I have to tell you how proud the folks at Suncor and the reclamation workers were about what they were showing off, and what we were walking on was amazing.
I heard your comment about the fox in the henhouse. Maybe there's a little bit of that, but I'll tell you what: there's much more so a tremendous amount of pride about doing the right thing here.
Bloc
Paule Brunelle Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC
If we had the chickens here to testify, I would ask them whether they were satisfied with your work.
Mr. Mullowney, I have little time left, but I want to take this opportunity to commend you. From your presentation, I can see how dedicated you are to your community and your region. You take all of the stakeholders into account, and at the very least, that makes me want to visit Bay Bulls. It is positive to see.
I have a brief question. You said you need to develop your resources, but in the safest manner possible. Do you have suggestions on how to do that? I know we are talking about a huge issue here, but have you come up with ways to pursue that development safely?
Mayor, Town of Bay Bulls
There's always an inherent danger when you work in the North Atlantic. I don't know how safe you can make it, but we can certainly make it safer than it is.
I would refer to the helicopter crash in which my brother and those other individuals he worked with were killed. They had a helicopter that was certified and they thought they had 30 minutes to fly. The helicopter only had 11 minutes. That's the longest test they could pass. It was certified by the Americans and then sanctioned by the Canadians, because they regarded the chances of a catastrophic loss of oil as being extremely remote. Well, it's extremely remote that I will win the lottery on Friday, but I'll probably buy a ticket, so “extremely remote” doesn't cut it.
The other thing that bothered me was that there are aircraft out there that can fly for 30 minutes. It comes down to dollars and cents in that case. It's only money. I mean, we're talking people's lives here. Lives cannot be replaced. Money comes and goes.
We need to look at some of the regulations and make it as safe as possible for those people who engage in those industries on all our behalves, because it is the money that they generate that makes this country of Canada that much better.
So, yes, we can do things in the regulatory regime that would probably make the job a little safer, but then there's the social dividend I referenced earlier, and that's very important to me. Lots of people make incredible amounts of money in certain industries, but there are people who do not share in that. They do not have the same opportunities. That's where the social dividend comes in. If we were to spend some of that money on things like health, education, infrastructure, roads, and communications, I would see that as a social dividend. We all would benefit collectively.
What about pensions, for God's sake? There are Canadians who have worked a lifetime and have missed the opportunity to get the social dividends. They have been disenfranchised. We move on, and the new generation behind them benefits. What about those who did the time in the trenches, who worked hard to make this country what it is? We must do something to benefit all Canadians, not just a few.
That's where I come from on that.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit
Merci, Madame Brunelle.
Mr. Cullen, you have up to seven minutes. Go ahead, please.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
Thank you, Chair, and if you could let me know after four minutes, I'd like to pass it over to my colleague, Mr. Harris.
To the gentlemen from the Alberta Chamber of Resources group, you sit on the Alberta Water Council. Is that correct?
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
You seem like nice folks. You take environmental responsibility seriously. You want to do the right thing. Your companies walk the talk.
There are 25 folks from different groups—industry, government, environmental groups, non-profit groups—who sit on the Alberta Water Council. There was a recommendation that there should be reclamation of wetlands that have been disturbed or destroyed by oil sands projects. You folks and the Canadian oil sands producers were the only ones that rejected that proposal. Is that right?
Executive Director, Alberta Chamber of Resources
First off, most of the material in the report we endorsed. There were only certain aspects of the report that we had some problems with.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
You say on your website, “While the wetlands policy has not yet been implemented, these changes”--you recommended changes against the report--“may save literally billions of dollars for our members in the future”.
Your members are industry members. Walking the walk means walking the walk.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
When a wetland is destroyed by an operation, of the 25-member group, which includes other industrial groups--not just oil groups, but farmers' groups, non-profits, the Alberta government--only you and the Canadian oil producers were the ones that resisted this reclamation proposal.
Are you aware of the Commissioner of the Environment's report on water testing in the oil sands this past year in December?