Evidence of meeting #53 for Natural Resources in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was pipeline.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:50 p.m.
Canadian Operating Officer, Canada's Building Trades Unions
You know, there are a significant number of jobs that were done here in Canada in the last little while, which most people don't pay much attention to, that are in the multi-billion dollar range.
With the whole issue of whether the jobs are so big that we need to have different procedures, I don't think so. I think we have some of the most sophisticated operators and contractors in the world here in Canada—
4:50 p.m.
Canadian Operating Officer, Canada's Building Trades Unions
—and the best tradespeople, too.
4:50 p.m.
NDP
The Vice-Chair NDP Guy Caron
We continue our rounds of questions with Mrs. Perkins.
You have five minutes.
4:50 p.m.
Conservative
Pat Perkins Conservative Whitby—Oshawa, ON
Thank you.
In listening to all of this today, from the hands-on, to the learned legal side of things, we hear about Kalamazoo and lot and the lessons learned. It was probably one of the worst that's ever happened in the States, as we understand.
We've been very fortunate that our pipeline industry has done their due diligence and made sure that our pipelines have been secure. What environmental precautions have been brought forward as a result of those lessons learned in Kalamazoo? How much more effective has the safety regime been on the Canadian pipelines as a result of those lessons learned?
I'll go first to Mr. Blakely, and then ask Mr. Donihee, please.
4:50 p.m.
Canadian Operating Officer, Canada's Building Trades Unions
I would say that the way in which pipelines are monitored and the technology that is used have significantly changed as a result of Kalamazoo.
4:50 p.m.
Acting Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Energy Pipeline Association
I would say that terrible incident is what we refer to as a defining moment. Many industries have them, be it the Space Shuttle Challenger accident or the terrible accident of two 747s colliding in Tenerife. That, like the tragedy of Lac-Mégantic, was a defining moment for the pipeline industry.
Since then we've undertaken a control room management practice that will be self-assessed across all of our members this year. They're challenging each other to make sure they're upping their game through the integrity first program, which is outstanding.
Another fine example is work that we commissioned with the Royal Society of Canada, one of the most renowned scientific bodies in the world, to undertake a study of oil-on-water properties so that we can quickly assess what it will do, and whether the recovery technology that we have is absolutely first-class, world-class, so that we can recover in the unlikely event that a spill ever occurs?
4:50 p.m.
Conservative
Pat Perkins Conservative Whitby—Oshawa, ON
Thank you.
My follow-up question is one that I've asked in most of these discussions. With respect to the environmental aspect of the pipeline crossings, has adding more valve shut-off areas close to highly sensitive environmental spots, or creeks, been part of the consideration of the installation of new pipeline or rehabilitation of existing pipeline?
4:55 p.m.
Canadian Operating Officer, Canada's Building Trades Unions
Yes, but that's been coming over the course of years in any event.
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
Pat Perkins Conservative Whitby—Oshawa, ON
Okay.
Those would be shut-off valves that could be remotely triggered.
4:55 p.m.
Canadian Operating Officer, Canada's Building Trades Unions
They're remotely operated; no one has to drive out to them.
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
Pat Perkins Conservative Whitby—Oshawa, ON
Okay, so it could be immediate and it would mitigate the damage environmentally.
I think that's a very big one for most communities. They don't want to see something happen in their waterways and have it affect their fisheries and all of those sorts of things.
I thank you so much for that part of the discussion because you are the first ones who have been able to answer that. Everybody is assuming, but today it was definitive, so I thank you.
Also, the fact that we now have the navy and the air force covered, and I heard some reference earlier to the starship Enterprise—I don't know where this is going today.... There seems to be a lot of people with strongly regulated environments who are working with this industry, and I think that's great.
Thank you very much.
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
4:55 p.m.
NDP
The Vice-Chair NDP Guy Caron
Thank you very much, Ms. Perkins.
We'll move on now for the next five minutes with Ms. Duncan.
4:55 p.m.
NDP
Linda Duncan NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB
I have questions for Mr. Donihee.
I would presume that you think it's reasonable that the safety of pipelines is just one factor in public confidence in current pipelines and the building of new pipelines. It's good that we're bringing forward legislation that hopefully will ensure that there is increased or improved inspection and safety, and more expeditious responses and compensation.
However, I'm sure you and your association, your company members, have noted the task force report that was just issued, which is recommending an enhanced voice for first nations in all resource-based projects, including pipelines, and that they have a greater share in the benefits. Those appear to echo the Eyford report, which identified the failure on the part of the government to resolve first nation land claims as one of the key barriers to the approval of future pipelines.
I wonder if you would like to comment on that, and where you think pipeline safety legislation lies compared to the bigger issues that your companies are facing?
4:55 p.m.
Acting Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Energy Pipeline Association
If I might use “confidence” as being somewhat synonymous with “trust” as a concept and say we're working very aggressively from the viewpoint of taking a look at that concept—credibility, reliability, and intimacy, be it relationships over self-interest.... From that aspect of relationships, it's vital that our companies have very strong relationships with everyone with whom they come in contact, be it all Canadians, with first nations absolutely inclusive within that.
We've done things like introducing a standard or an ethical protocol for land agents, so that their dealings are common and values based, and that the touch points are absolutely honouring that.
Clearly first nations have an absolute right to benefit, as do all Canadians, from the work that the pipeline companies are undertaking. On an individual basis, each of our member companies is striking up very strong relationships with first nations, and examining ways in which they can benefit far more directly from the work that the pipeline companies are undertaking.
We've had the privilege of meeting with the new national chief of the Assembly of First Nations. The relationship has been initiated in a very positive way, and we look forward to continuing that dialogue with them as we move forward.
4:55 p.m.
NDP
Linda Duncan NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB
Thank you very much.
I raised questions related to the following incident with both the board and the government.
Several years back, there was a significant break in an Enbridge pipeline at Wrigley, Northwest Territories. That incident was discovered by a trapper out on his line. In fact, he was alerted to it by a bear that was extremely upset.
It was clear in that case that neither the company nor the NEB identified that spill, so more oil came out. The first nation was extremely upset that nobody had contacted them in order to participate constructively in the process.
I'm wondering what lessons you can share with us of what you learned from that spill and the response, and whether you are coming forward with better processes to identify and respond to those spills and work with impacted communities.
5 p.m.
Acting Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Energy Pipeline Association
I think what you would find from the lessons of that particular circumstance—I'm not fully familiar with the details—and that you're going to see in this day and age, as you would have seen in Manitoba most recently with the gas situation that evolved, is that the company is on the ground immediately. The individuals who are to be notified are very clearly delineated within the emergency response plans.
And to your last question, with respect to first nations who have a deep and abiding love of the land, the more deliberate involvement of first nations people in monitoring the environment around pipelines is very much planned, so the notification would occur more rapidly and their immediate involvement is also far more prominent than it might have been in the past.
As for the lessons learned, get to the press, tell people what's happening, demonstrate a very effective response and, as I spoke to a moment ago, understand the relationships that are key to sustaining trust and be open and transparent about how effectively you're responding.
5 p.m.
NDP
The Vice-Chair NDP Guy Caron
Ms. Duncan, I am sorry, but your five minutes are up.
The floor now goes to Mrs. Block, also for five minutes.
5 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly Block Conservative Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
I'm going to carry on where I left off after my last question.
But first I want to say once again that I appreciated a comment Mr. Blakely made when he said, “The truth is, we live here”.
Whether we are legislators or regulators or shareholders of a company, those who are building the pipelines or working for those corporations, we all live here and we all desire to ensure that projects are only approved if they are safe for Canadians and safe for the environment.
Prior to this legislation, our government brought forward new fines for companies that break our strict environmental laws. These fines were meant to be a tool that the NEB could use to ensure companies were penalized for contraventions of NEB regulations or orders.
The measures in this act build on those previous measures by enhancing and further clarifying these provisions. For example, companies operating major crude oil pipelines will now be subject to the absolute liability up to $1 billion. I want to note that still in the event that a company is found negligent or at fault, there is unlimited liability as well. This should eliminate any residual uncertainty about which party is responsible for cleanup costs and damages if an incident occurs.
Mr. Donihee, what has been your experience with industry, with members of your organization? Have you found that companies are willing to clean up and remediate after a spill, that they're willing to shoulder the costs?
5 p.m.
Acting Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Energy Pipeline Association
My experience in a previous life, while at the National Energy Board as the chief operating officer and also now while now serving at the Canadian Energy Pipeline Association, is that the companies absolutely step up. I could not agree more with your point, that the member companies, which I have the privilege of representing, share in the desire to ensure that we operate the safest possible pipeline transmission system that will benefit our nation.
Yes, they have stepped up. My experience both while serving at the NEB and now on behalf of the association—and I think it's demonstrated through our support for this regulation as well—is that we accept the responsibility that comes to us, and we're doing everything in our power to make sure the government would never need to exercise it.