Natural Resources Committee on April 24th, 2018

[Greg Peterson]

If we focus a bit on the governance, the first step would be bringing all of the actors together to really enumerate exactly who is doing what and to identify where there are gaps and duplication. If there are areas of duplication where we can find efficiencies, then let's harvest those efficiencies and then drive them toward addressing some of the gaps.

[Mary Ng, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

Okay.

We heard a lot about the evolving landscape now in terms of the interest of many to get access to the data. Whether they are government policy-makers or are in industry and trying to plan to meet their own GHG reduction targets, they often look to datasets, to data, so that they can plan, finance, and make the kinds of decisions, in the case of industry, that are important.

In this context, can you talk to us about how Statistics Canada or the federal government would be able to play a role in bringing that data together in a way that would be helpful to policy, to government decision-makers, and to many other users? Can you give us some advice about that?

[Greg Peterson]

Statistics Canada already has the mandate to collect, compile, and analyze information. We already have the legislative authority to acquire administrative data from any level of government, and we do this in practice.

We've developed a statistical infrastructure that allows us to integrate various data sources together. For instance, we have a business register that identifies all Canadian businesses, and we use this as a matter of course to link tax data to other economic production information, whereby you can come up with that integrated dataset. I think the mechanisms and tools already exist to do that, and at Statistics Canada this is part of our core business.

In terms of making the data available to users, I think there are two dimensions to that. One dimension is to make available aggregate statistics, and certainly we make available through our website the aggregate statistics that we produce in Statistics Canada. In work that we've done with Transport Canada, we've developed an independently branded portal that brings all of this data together, and for sure that's how you can handle aggregate information.

We also make micro-level data available to researchers in a secure environment currently through our network of research data centres in universities across the country, and here in Ottawa we have a kind of business data/research data centre as well.

[Mary Ng, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

We had heard from others about new data, but the new data is generated by new forms of collection, right? It's technology-driven, right? It's data that exists in industry: big data and blockchain. We also heard that there is some analytical capability on the part of others, whether it's NRCan, the NEB, or the environment department, or ability to do it with their own data within their own mandates. That would exist for industry as well, because they're compiling their own and using it for their primary uses and sources.

When we look at the evolving nature of the way in which data are actually created, compiled, and now have the capability of being crunched through AI and big data, can you talk to us about where the opportunity is, whether it's for Statistics Canada or for anybody, or whether it's in this entire collection, and ultimately gets us the end result that addresses that continuum you talked about? That is a synthesis of what's coming in and, ultimately, better data at the end for one collection and multiple use. How do the methodologies and that sort of new technology play into it? Is there a role for StatsCan in this?

[Greg Peterson]

I think collaboration and co-operation are key. StatsCan can play a role in this as a kind of a curator, consolidator, or integrator of information.

I can give you another example from transportation.

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

It will have to a be a very quick example, if possible.

[Greg Peterson]

We learned from Transport Canada that they were acquiring GPS information from trucks. We were able to acquire this GPS information from Transport Canada using AI techniques to identify when trucks were stopping. We could link this geospatial information to our business register and identify where the trucks were stopped, and we could infer what the trucks were doing.

We couldn't do that on our own. It required the co-operation from a couple of departments, but we were able to move the yardstick forward because of that co-operation.

[Mary Ng, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

Mr. Schmale.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you to all witnesses for participating today and for your comments. They're greatly appreciated.

I guess I will pick up a bit on what Mary was talking about and start with our friends from the Department of the Environment. This is regarding the carbon tax.

Do you or anyone in your department have any data that you are aware of that would explain how much Canada's emissions will be reduced under a $50 a tonne carbon tax?

[Derek Hermanutz]

I can say to the committee that the government should be releasing a report soon with the impacts of existing and proposed carbon pricing in Canada, and I can make sure that the report is available to the chair and to the committee members once it's released.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

That would be greatly appreciated, because we just found out yesterday that carbon pricing is going to suck out about $40 billion of GDP from our economy by 2022. Having the data on the other side to tell us what we will be getting in return for our money would be greatly appreciated. I look forward to hearing that report.

Maybe this could be open to anyone at the table. In terms of the pipeline projects that are going forward, we were recently made aware that a project in Quebec, a proposed airfield terminal in Montreal, was exempt from downstream emissions.

Do you or anyone at the table have any information on why it was given an exemption in Quebec, but wasn't in Alberta's case?

[Derek Hermanutz]

I don't have any expertise in that area, but I can commit to the department's following up to come back to the committee with some information on that question.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

Okay, perfect. Thank you.

I should point out, because I have the floor and have some time, that Alberta was the first jurisdiction in North America—and this happened over a decade ago—to implement a levy on all industrial emissions. They had a project in place to decrease emissions, and that happened well before many were even talking about this. I want to give a shout-out to the fact that Alberta has been ahead in many areas. They have some of the best standards anywhere in the world, and the fact that we continue to see them being pushed aside is quite unfortunate. I appreciate the—

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

Sorry, but I see a hand up over here.

Ms. Ng.

[Mary Ng, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

On a point of order, we are talking about data.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

Yes, and that's why I was asking about data, and you were talking about emissions.

[Mary Ng, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

I was talking about data.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

I was just picking up where you left off on emissions.

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

Let's hear the question, and then we'll see if it's relevant.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

I was just clearing my throat, Chair. I was just getting ready.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

I'll open this one up to the whole floor.

We're talking about data, and any search of Stats Canada could result in your finding a wide variety of sources on data. It's there; we have it. I'm still—and you're going to have to sell me on this and push hard here—trying to get my head around the fact that it is absolutely necessary that we create a separate agency for national energy data. Is it a necessity? Can we just not use current sources and maybe streamline them a bit better?

[Greg Peterson]

I believe that we have many of the data sources already there. Where we don't have the data sources, we should be working on identifying where the gaps exist. I think we have other models in place where we haven't had a change in the machinery of government in order to coordinate data holdings at various jurisdictions.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

Does anybody else want to comment before I keep going? No? Okay.

Statistics Canada is reporting that some of the energy data is better than others. Some of the data that is collected could be improved. Some of it goes uncollected. You actually mentioned that a second ago.

Where else can we look to make improvements? Do you know specific areas where we could be pushing forward in your field, and in others? I'm just looking to keep the conversation—