Natural Resources Committee on May 9th, 2022

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Again, I'm sorry. Then we still have to get to Mr. Angus.

[Dan McTeague]

I don't think it's the clock.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Exactly.

[Dan McTeague]

Mike, thank you for that.

Look, I think we have to recognize that the so-called transition for workers was attempted here in Ontario. It didn't work out so well, and many of those workers are still looking for work and have gone back to traditional industries.

We have to recognize that the amount of money that's being committed for subsidies better have an end, because if you need subsidies to encourage people to buy something, subsidies for them to build something and subsidies for them to maintain something, sooner or later something is going to give. I can tell you, with gas at two dollars a litre across Canada today, they're aren't many people who are not prepared to accept that we've gone down, I think, a little too quickly on this idea that we can suddenly wish away fossil fuels and, at the same time, provide people a standard of living they've come to expect.

We're not perfect, but we're better than most countries. In that context, I think you have to be very careful at how quickly you tread because, I think, at this point, burdening people with the cost of heating, electricity, natural gas and other important factors in our society isn't just hurting Canadians. You're hurting the world and depriving it of what it desperately needs and what Canada can produce. I think we all win in that respect, but understand that the ability to make this transition can't be done because some people just simply say that's the way we have to go.

As for the science, I'm convinced. I'm up with people like Steven Koonin and his book Unsettled, and there are many others who will say that.

There's a lot of debate and discussion there. I'm willing to listen to it, but I'm also prepared to say that we can't throw out the baby with the bathwater. We have to stand up for Canadians and ensure that Canadians are doing the right thing, the most responsible thing, without hurting them.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

With that, we need to go over to Mr. Angus for his two and a half minutes.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Thank you.

I want to end with Mr. McTeague, who's my cousin. I just want to put that on the table.

[Dan McTeague]

Okay.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

I sort of wonder, though. You described the IPCC as extremist. Is that correct?

[Dan McTeague]

I described their conclusions.... When we take one versus the several that may be out there, we tend to look at the most extreme and use that as a basis for public policy, which isn't very wise.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Okay, but you call them groups like the IPCC. That's the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change—

[Dan McTeague]

I know what it is, Mr. Angus.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

I know.

That was created by the World Meteorological Organization and the United Nations. You described the report as “anti-fossil fuel alarmism”. I bring that up because I wonder why you're here, Mr. McTeague.

I don't see any expertise in just transition, but in climate change denial, you can't be beat.

I have you on Twitter saying, “many Canadians are clinging to the false narrative of a climate 'emergency'” and “Nothing to see here Canadians—just the bitter harvest of our climate alarmist appeasement”. Appeasement strikes me as amazing. Then you go on to say from another blog, and you kind of alluded to it here, that “ the science of climate change is anything but settled, and that we are not in, nor should we anticipate, a crisis.”

[Richard Bragdon, Conservative, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Just a second, Mr. Angus. I've stopped the clock.

What is the point of order you've called?

[Richard Bragdon, Conservative, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

I just think it's quite uncalled for, for my honourable colleague to attack one of the witnesses on the panel in a personal way. I just don't think there's any place for that.

We are all at this from different perspectives—

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Is this debate?

[Richard Bragdon, Conservative, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

Anyway, it's a point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

As I've said before, I tend to give a fair bit of latitude to our members, but we will also afford the witnesses an opportunity to respond, and there's a minute and 13 seconds left in this round.

I'll turn it back to you, Mr. Angus, and I'll start the clock again.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Thank you.

I was actually not surprised that the Conservatives intervened because their whole position here has been to deny climate science, so they got a guy whose Twitter feed is of full of ridiculing the crisis and calling it “woke capitalism”. The fact that he's claiming that there is no science on this is ridiculous. It's something that will go well with the Conservatives. I was actually trying to figure out where Mr. McTeague gets his science from.

He says that “people are waking up”. He refers to “the gilets jaunes” in France—the yellow vesters. I kind of remembered them, so I looked them up. CNN says the yellow vesters are fanning the flames of anti-Semitism in France. ABC says that the yellow vesters are “dogged by intolerance [and] extremism”. France 24 says violence is seen as legitimate by the yellow vesters.

I want it on the record that the person they brought here to represent their interests on affordability says that the people we need to be learning from are the extremists in France who believe that violence is okay. He says that science is ridiculous and that the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change is a group of extremists.

Enough said. Thanks. I don't need any more time.

[Dan McTeague]

No, you do need some time, Mr. Angus, because of course that's your style.

Although I'm related to you and I consider you a friend, I understand that your idea here is to publicly—

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

I love you, Dan. I just don't want to put up with climate change denial and be told it's legitimate.

[Dan McTeague]

[Inaudible—Editor] your leader last week.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

One at a time, please.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

I'll call my mother on you, Dan.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Charlie, you're out of time.