Natural Resources Committee on Sept. 22nd, 2022

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

I call the meeting to order. Good morning, everyone.

Welcome to meeting number 32 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Natural Resources.

This morning, I'd like to welcome guests Mr. Barlow and Mr. Lemire. I think that's all of our guests for the committee today.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), the committee is continuing the study of creating a fair and equitable Canadian energy transformation. Today is the ninth meeting with witnesses on this study. Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format, pursuant to the House order of June 23, 2022.

I would like to remind all participants that taking screenshots or photos of your screen is not permitted. Today's proceedings will be televised and made available via the House of Commons website.

For the benefit of some of our witnesses—I think all of the MPs know the rules here, but for those who are joining us for the first time—please wait until I recognize you by name before speaking. For those participating by video conference, please click on the microphone icon to activate your mike, and please mute it when you're not speaking.

There is interpretation available for those online. You have the choice at the bottom of your screen of “floor” for the language that's being used at the time, or “English” or “French”. Those in the room can use the earpiece that is provided and select the desired channel.

All comments should be addressed through the chair.

For members in the room, if you wish to speak, please raise your hand. For members on Zoom, please use the “raise hand” function. The clerk and I will do our best to manage the speaking order between those in the room and those participating virtually. Bear with us as we try to find our way through the two formats here.

On the study of creating a fair and equitable Canadian energy transformation, we're going to go right to the witnesses today, so—

[Richard Bragdon, Conservative, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

Mr. Chair—

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

—I would like to welcome....

If I can, Mr. Bragdon, I'll move through the welcoming. I'm hoping that if we have items of business—I know we have a number of motions that have been made—maybe we can push that a bit to the end of the meeting.

[Richard Bragdon, Conservative, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

This is a point of privilege, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Okay, let me do the welcome and then we'll do your point of privilege. Then we'll get into opening statements.

Attending virtually from the International Trade Union Confederation, we have Samantha Smith, director of the Just Transition Centre. Welcome.

From the Union of British Columbia Indian Chiefs, we have Judy Wilson. Welcome.

I missed Ms. Saks, who is joining us virtually as a guest today.

In person, from the Carpenters’ District Council of Ontario, we have Mike Yorke, director of public affairs and innovation. He is joined by Finn Johnson, director of communications. Welcome to you.

Now we'll go to Mr. Bragdon's point of privilege before going to our five-minute opening statements by witnesses and then into our rounds of questions.

Go ahead, Mr. Bragdon.

[Richard Bragdon, Conservative, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I appreciate it.

I wanted to bring this to the committee today. It's a point of privilege with regard to the order of witnesses.

I give all due respect to the witnesses who are lined up today. Thank you for taking the time. We look forward to hearing your testimony at some point.

The concern and point of privilege I raise, Mr. Chair, is with regard to.... It's been a long-standing tradition and long-practised tradition of committees within the House of Commons and Parliament to ensure that there's proportionality of witnesses and that the witnesses from each of the parties are definitely considered, approached and added so that the witnesses who are heard in any committee, any hearing or any study properly represent the representation within the House and the structure of the committee.

When we look at the makeup of this particular study we've done and the witnesses we've heard from—

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Go ahead, Ms. Dabrusin.

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

I don't believe that is a point of privilege. This was decided by a motion among committee members. I don't believe this is a point of privilege, and we have witnesses here whom we would really like to hear.

[Richard Bragdon, Conservative, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

It is a point of privilege.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

I'll give you 30 seconds to continue.

I agree that it's not a point of privilege, but I'll let you finish your thought, and then we're going to move to our witnesses.

[Richard Bragdon, Conservative, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

I believe it is a point of privilege, because we're dealing with a very important matter and a very important study, Mr. Chair, and there are very important witnesses who have yet to be heard by this committee. They have not had the opportunity yet and have not, to my knowledge, been approached, or they haven't had the opportunity to speak. I know for a fact that they want to speak before the committee. Some of them are pretty significant.

We're dealing with first ministers. We're dealing with premiers of provinces who are willing and want to appear before this committee, and they have not yet been approached, to my knowledge. This is supposedly our last day of hearing testimony. We've had some key witnesses.

I have an email here, sir, from Premier Blaine Higgs of New Brunswick, and I think this is relevant to the committee. He wrote this—

[Francesco Sorbara, Liberal, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

Chair, I have a point of order—

[Richard Bragdon, Conservative, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

I've—

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

You do have a motion that you submitted and we will entertain it.

As I said, I would like to try to get to our witnesses. I can allow time at the end of the meeting. We can set aside the last 30 minutes, if we'd like, to look at....

We do have a motion right now that was made in June and that was carried forward to have today's hearing with witnesses—

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

It was decided by the committee that these would be today's witnesses, and the motion we had was that this would be the final hearing. You've been able to bring forward and table a motion, and I'm willing to entertain that, but I would like to hear from the witnesses today.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

I have a point of order from Francesco and then from Mr. Angus.

[Francesco Sorbara, Liberal, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

Good morning, everyone. It's great to be here today.

First off, thank you, Mr. Bragdon, for your intervention. I understand that every member wishes to raise concerns and issues they may have as we continue our work here at this committee. Unfortunately, on your behalf, it's not a point of privilege.

A motion was adopted by the committee for said witnesses, so I defer to you, Chair, to continue to move on with the study at hand. We have witnesses here who have flown in and witnesses here virtually whom we would like to hear from, and I wish to continue on that point. This is not a point of privilege.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Go ahead, Mr. Angus.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

What I'm very concerned about is that the Conservatives, who've done everything to deny indigenous voices who might oppose the oil and gas agenda, are now trying to filibuster this committee with a false point of privilege. This was debated—our witness list—and they had an opportunity to bring forward witnesses. We were at a meeting where they decided they wanted to move on from this study, so to pull names out of a hat at this point—

[Greg McLean, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair—

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

I'm not finished speaking—

[Greg McLean, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Yeah, you are—