Natural Resources Committee on Sept. 22nd, 2022

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

This is an attempt to shut down witnesses—

[Greg McLean, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Point of order—

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

I need order here.

Mr. McLean, please mute yourself. We'll get to you, but we're working now through a speakers list—

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

I just want to finish, Mr. Chair.

I'm deeply opposed to the idea of taking half an hour out of meeting with these witnesses that we agreed to in order to let the Conservatives do more obstruction. We've seen a relentless pattern of obstruction of our studies. I am very opposed if you would give half an hour from our witnesses, on whom we agreed—for this bogus claim of proportionality. We had decided on our witnesses and we voted on it and now we need to hear from them.

If they want to obstruct, they can do that someplace else.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Do you have a point of order?

[Eric Melillo, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

Yes.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Okay. I have Mr. Melillo, Mr. McLean and Mr. Bragdon on points of order.

[Eric Melillo, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

Go ahead, Mr. Melillo.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I in no way mean to challenge your decision. I know that we've worked together quite well so far throughout this committee, but I would like to read a quick quote from page 1060 of Bosc and Gagnon, which reads as follows:

If a member wishes to raise a question of privilege during a committee meeting, or an incident arises in connection with the committee proceedings that may constitute a breach of privilege, the committee Chair allows the member to explain the situation. The Chair then determines whether the question in fact relates to parliamentary privilege.

Mr. Chair, I would respectfully contend that you have not given enough time to hear Mr. Bragdon's point to be able to make that determination of whether or not it is indeed—

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

I have a point of order.

[Eric Melillo, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

—a question of privilege. Again, I say that as respectfully as possible and in no way mean to challenge you, but given that this precedent has been established, I don't believe that there has been adequate time given at this point—

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

I have three points of order that are—

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

I believe they are just debating the original point of order. Mine goes directly to what Mr. Melillo just stated, which is that you've made a decision. If they wish to challenge the chair—

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

They can do so.

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

—that is their prerogative, but there is nothing else to debate. You've made a decision. Are they challenging the chair? If not, let's move on.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Yes, and that's where I was going to go.

Mr. McLean, if there's something new here....

Otherwise, I have made a decision. We're going to move to the witnesses. The chair can be challenged. We'll see where that goes. I will hear if there are points of order that are new or that add new information.

Go ahead, Mr. McLean.

[Greg McLean, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

I do appreciate the input from my colleague Mr. Melillo on where a standing order on making a point of privilege ranks here, but I'll also put on the record here that Mr. Angus tried to put on the record that we're the party that didn't want to hear indigenous voices, because I remember his quote when he didn't want to hear from Mr. Swampy. Mr. Swampy is a very respected indigenous consultant here in Alberta—

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Is that a point of order?

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Mr. McLean, we're getting into debate here, and I don't think that we're hearing anything new.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

It's debate. It's shutting down our witnesses.

[Greg McLean, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

We have a motion on the table here. It's a point of privilege. This committee did pass a motion that is clearly controversial, and against the conventions of Parliament, about how we actually hear it. To make a motion in a committee that we're not going to hear any more witnesses who come from one political party is absurd and a gross contravention of everything parliamentary democracy stands for as far as hearing witnesses is concerned, so we have to hear this out at this committee. We have to hear it out further—

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

I'm sorry, Chair. That is an opinion.

Challenge the chair, or.... We need to move on—

[Greg McLean, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

—after this committee.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Challenge the chair or move on, because this is turning into a circus.

[Greg McLean, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

That's the order in the rules. I don't need to challenge the chair. We've actually got—

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

This is a circus.