Natural Resources Committee on Sept. 22nd, 2022

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

I just wanted to raise a point of order here. We have worked hard to try to get this study finished when the Conservatives wanted it finished and didn't want it to continue—

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

That's not a point of order.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

—but as soon as we have the B.C. chiefs talking about indigenous rights, we see these efforts to obstruct—

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

That's not a point of order, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Charlie, I need to stop you. No, Charlie, you're out of order—

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Put it on the record that this is why you're doing it.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Charlie, you need to mute your mike.

I have a motion that's under way right now. We're going to hear the motion. It is within the scope of the study, so we'll hear the motion and then dispense with it.

Mr. Bragdon, the floor is yours.

[Richard Bragdon, Conservative, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

In reference to this motion, Premier Higgs, the Premier of New Brunswick, submitted a letter to me as of last night, saying:

Members of The Standing Committee on Natural Resources (RNNR),

I want to express my disappointment at not being called upon to participate as a witness in relation to your study on “Creating a Fair and Equitable Canadian Energy Transformation.”

It is more evident than ever that the reality of energy security, both domestically and internationally, is in peril. We need national policies that allow for a transition to requirements that will reduce our emissions while ensuring reliable and affordable energy supplies.

This is of crucial importance to New Brunswick, the Atlantic Region, and Canada.

A variety of voices should be part of the conversation to ensure that all factors are considered as we move toward a net zero carbon energy source, while at the same time, identifying clearly the shortfall to meet current and forecast energy supply demands.

Sincerely,

Blaine Higgs

Premier of New Brunswick

We have first ministers, and we also have letters here from the Government of Saskatchewan and the Government of Alberta that I can read as well. I don't mind. I'll just continue to read what they're saying as to the importance of hearing their perspectives on this very important study. I find it somewhat shocking that those governments have not been invited to this committee to give testimony on such an important study for the future pathway of energy transformation in this country.

Then when you look at the proportionality of witnesses, we see that my honourable colleague from the NDP and others have had the same number of witnesses called before the committee as we have as His Majesty's official opposition. That breaks the convention of committees and of Parliament. I think that at the least, the committee could consider inviting these important witnesses.

The broad strokes of responsibility for implementing and carrying out this just transition and this transformation of our energy sector is going to be borne by our provinces; therefore, given the fact that first ministers who want to appear before this committee have not yet been invited and have not had the ability to get in front of this committee to share their perspectives, Mr. Chair, I think it behooves us as a committee to act upon this and take them up on their willingness to appear before the committee and be heard. It's going to be very important information for us to have in taking a holistic, balanced approach as it relates to the full study that's being composed.

I think we've received a lot of input. When we go back to Confederation and how we were founded, we see that we obviously recognized there was a role for the federal government, but there were also distinct roles for provincial governments. We have to respect those jurisdictions. A lot of the implications of this study and what we're researching fall upon, and become the burden of, our provincial governments.

They want to speak into this matter. They want to have their voices heard. I think we as a committee can at least do our best to make sure that this desire is facilitated and make sure that those voices are brought to the table.

I will read from the Government of Saskatchewan. It is addressed to the committee and the chair, and it says:

I am writing in response to the Government of Canada's study on the “Just Transition.” As global events have notably caused energy crises in European countries, it is incumbent that all Canadian governments focus our efforts on advancing the conversation around energy security instead of an approach that seeks to phase-out our oil and gas industry and move to arbitrary electricity emissions targets that do not take into account the reality in individual jurisdictions. This misguided federal focuses on prematurely shutting down critical industries in Canada — some of the most sustainable in the world — would have significant and severe consequences for Saskatchewan workers and families and miss a critical opportunity to support our international allies.

Our government remains deeply concerned by the Government of Canada's approach to a Just Transition for coal workers and communities. The unilateral approach to phase-out a sector of the economy without a plan to transition displaced workers to comparable jobs within their communities has left workers, many of whom are unionized employees in Estevan, Coronach and surrounding areas, understandably concerned about their futures and livelihoods.

It is our government's every intention to grow our economy, to provide a better quality of life for our residents. Saskatchewan has a unique opportunity to provide the world with sustainably and ethically produced critical minerals, food, fertilizers and fuel that the world needs for energy security, food security and climate security.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Chair, I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Mr. Bragdon, if I could pause you just for one second, I have a point of order being called.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

I don't mind. He can talk all night if he wants.

My question, out of respect for our witnesses and the intense disrespect they're being shown, is whether or not the Conservatives plan to talk all night and—

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

That's not a point of order, Mr. Angus.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

—whether or not we can ask the witnesses to be excused so they don't have to listen to this farce.

[Richard Bragdon, Conservative, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

Mr. Chair, the fact that the honourable member would refer to the concerns of provinces and first ministers of this country as a farce is beyond—

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Mr. Bragdon—

[Richard Bragdon, Conservative, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

It's not appropriate. This committee—

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

I'll ask you to continue with your statement.

For clarification to your point, I want to let you know that of the ministers, Minister Savage was actually invited when we made the original invitations and was unable to attend.

I'll let you finish with your—

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Maybe he stole the invitation out of her box.

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

Seriously, that's not okay.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

We're degenerating to a point—

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

You're better than that.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

—that's not really healthy for the standards at which I expect the committee to operate.

Mr. Bragdon, I respectfully ask you to continue, but to conclude as quickly as you can, because we have witnesses. I'd like to hear their testimony.

[Richard Bragdon, Conservative, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

Climate security and energy security go hand in hand.

In a world where nations want products sourced from stable, democratic regions you will find no other jurisdiction better positioned to deliver results. Saskatchewan's oil and gas industry directly and indirectly employees over 30,000 people, and through our Growth Plan, we will continue to support these important segments of our economy.

It was unfortunate that, despite having vast supplies of energy and energy potential, we did not further assist our European allies, namely Germany, when Chancellor Olaf Scholz requested assistance with receiving natural gas in the face of Russian aggression and threats of limited energy supplies for this coming winter. Canada and Saskatchewan have the enormous potential to be part of the solution when it comes to supporting continental and global energy security for our partners with sustainably sourced resources.

Now more than ever, it is important for nations to consider where one gets their energy products. As the Saskatchewan Industrial and Mining Suppliers Association once asked, “you care about where your coffee is sourced from — why not your oil?” I would argue that the best place to buy one's energy from is Saskatchewan. If all oil-producing countries in the world adopted environmental regulations similar to Saskatchewan's, greenhouse gas emissions from oil production would be cut by 25%. Given factors like this it makes sense that the last barrel of oil ever used should come from Saskatchewan.

We recognize the need to reduce emissions and our province has undertaken many measures to further improve our emissions intensity. For instance, SaskPower has committed to achieving net-zero by 2050, is developing small modular nuclear reactor technology for clean energy generation and is reducing emissions by 50 percent from 2005 levels by developing renewable power. Our province also continues to pioneer carbon capture utilization and storage technology, which in Saskatchewan, produces 82 percent fewer emissions compared to conventional oil production. However, the federal government, the NDP-Liberal Coalition government, and the committee need to recognize that phasing-out energy, mining and agriculture sectors will only shift activity to jurisdictions with lower environmental standards and lead to higher emissions globally.

Recently, I had the privilege of attending the Lloydminster Heavy Oil Show. At the trade show, many exhibits showcased the emerging technological and practical innovations the energy sector is using to curb hazards, spills and emissions. The show was a great example of how our western Canadian oil companies and service workers continuously strive to be the most sustainable energy producers in the world.

CAPP noted that many Canada's clean technology solutions will continue to come from the oil and gas sector, as they have heavily invested in research and development. It is vitally important therefore that the federal government recognize, acknowledge and support the oil and gas industry in these efforts.

Any form of “Just Transition” should be about ensuring energy security and supporting our existing wealth generating growth sectors. As industry adopts new technologies, it is unrealistic to believe that all displaced workers can be retrained to work in green jobs. It is important that the federal government offer adequate supports for any displaced workers and to hear their perspectives.

I would invite the House of Commons Natural Resources Committee to travel to and visit Saskatchewan and hear from our community members in Lloydminster and other oil producing regions about their thoughts on the federal government's push for a “Just Transition.” I would also urge the committee to invite the Government and Province of Saskatchewan to present as a witness and testify before the committee.

As the policy of a just transition would have disproportionate impact on our province, it is critically important that Saskatchewan's unique perspective be heard and receive due consideration.

Sincerely,

Jim Reiter

Minister of Energy and Resources

I also have here, Mr. Chair, a letter from the Government of Alberta.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Mr. Bragdon, I'm happy to have it shared. I'm sure that they have many great things to say as well, and perhaps instead of reading it into the record, we could offer it as a very similar appeal to appear before the committee. That could be part of the motion that's before the committee.

I'd invite you to perhaps conclude your comments so we can get back to the discussion of this motion by others on my speaking list—

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Chair—