Official Languages Committee on Jan. 29th, 2008

[Raymond Gravel, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Do you give more protection to French, because French is more vulnerable than English everywhere in Canada, even in Quebec?

[Hubert Lussier]

This might annoy my Quebec anglophone friends, but if we look at the figures, we can see that much more money is spent in support of francophones outside of Quebec than for the Quebec anglophones. This is blatantly obvious. To my colleague's answer, let me add that the problems that Quebec anglophones have have little to do with losing their language. They have more to do with the vitality of communities. Of course, I mean the communities outside Montreal whose living conditions are in many ways quite similar to those of many francophone communities outside Quebec. We hear about faltering institutions, an aging population, and the erosion of the economic foundations that had sustained these communities for a very long period of time. Besides, there is an increasing exchange of best practices going on between francophones outside Quebec and anglophones outside Montreal in Quebec.

[Raymond Gravel, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Very well. What do you think of the request made by the Bloc Québécois, whereby the federal public service should function in French on Quebec territory? Do you find this exaggerated, or do you think that this would protect the French language in Quebec?

[Bruce Manion]

A public servant should not make statements on such matters. People should do without our opinion.

[Raymond Gravel, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Nonetheless, do you think that Quebec needs legislation to protect the French language, and fairly strict legislation, such as Bill 101? Do we need this to protect French culture in Quebec?

[Bruce Manion]

I must give you the same answer. We have no business making any statements about the way in which provinces will go about ensuring the vitality of their language communities. Of course, measures must be taken to that effect, but we, as federal public servants, have no mandate to express our opinions on the way in which the provinces go about it.

[Raymond Gravel, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

I can ask for an opinion, since you are experts.

[Bruce Manion]

Nevertheless, we must observe certain restrictions.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you very much, Mr. Gravel.

Let us now conclude the second round with Mr. Godin from the NDP.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I would like to correct what my friend Mr. Gravel just said. Unless I am mistaken, Bill C-482 from the Bloc Québécois is aimed at private undertakings under federal jurisdiction and not at the public service. There is a difference.

With regard to Montreal, I do not know whether the study is finished. We heard on the news that Montreal was becoming more anglophone than francophone. We hear about the Island of Montreal, but has the entire Montreal region been fully studied? Many people have left Montreal to settle on the south shore, in the area around Taschereau Boulevard, in what is now called region 10-30.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

We say 450. You can have region 10-30, if you want it.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

I am not talking about the telephone number.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

No, no.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

It has to do with the highway, in the area where there is a large shopping centre, etc. Many people move there from Montreal. If we add up both factors, there is a big difference because many people are moving. Has this subject been studied?

[Hubert Lussier]

I could not tell you. I imagine that you are referring to studies from the Conseil supérieur de la langue française du Québec. Perhaps there are studies going on. I know that the issue of people of francophone lineage who leave the Island of Montreal to settle on the south shore or on Laval island is frequently raised. This is no doubt actually reflected in the figures, but I cannot make any further comments.

[Jérôme Moisan]

As a matter of fact, sir, you are referring to two different sets of data from the census. The first set has to do with Montreal Island and shows a decrease. The second set has to do with the metropolitan region, which is geographically larger, where there is a different picture that reflects what you just mentioned. Moreover, some francophones left the island and settled in the suburban ring around the island, either to the north or to the south, and there, the situation is slightly different. In fact, the census clearly reflects this state of affairs.

No further studies have been done. Statistics Canada published the census in December and we are not aware of any more advanced studies.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Our researchers tell us, according to the data from the Public Accounts of Canada, that the funds spent on education in the minority language and on community life decreased by $10 million in 2006-2007 as compared to 2005-2006, which means that they went down from $231 to $221 million.

Where was this cut made? Who was penalized?

[Hubert Lussier]

From what year to what year did you say?

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

In 2006-2007, the amount decreased by $10 million. The amount spent decreased from $231 to $221 million.

[Hubert Lussier]

I will try to find my figures quickly.

I am not familiar with these figures because the 2006-2007 figures, which are the ones I usually use and which will soon appear in the annual report, show $226 million in expenses. You were talking about total expenses for education.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

I was talking about education in the minority language and about community life.

[Hubert Lussier]

Now this is the total expenditure for communities. I see $226 million. For the previous year, in the same category, I have $232 million.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

It went down from $232 to $226 million.

[Hubert Lussier]

Yes. The 2006-2007 figures, as I said, have not yet been published. However, those are, more or less, the figures I am preparing to recommend to the minister for publication in the yearly report.

Why would there be a difference? These figures are not quite of the same magnitude as the figures you quoted, but fluctuations can occur from year to year due to a number of factors. For instance, there may be a year with three large infrastructure projects which will not recur in the following year. We can to some extent manage the funds, and I say this in the presence of my colleague who is not only in charge of official languages, but who is also the department's chief financial officer. Sometimes, it is done by using resources that come from outside the department and that are not spent on other programs, which could create a small peak in the expenses on official languages during a given year, followed by a small drop in the next year.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you, Mr. Lussier. Thank you, Mr. Godin.

We have finished the second round. Since three parties told me that they want to carry on with the question period, we will have a third turn.

Without any further ado, I give the floor to Mr. Rodriguez.