Official Languages Committee on Feb. 5th, 2008

[Karen Ellis]

When a case is heard by the courts, it raises the profile of the issue and helps remedy the situation.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Thank you.

What can you tell us about the services provided by the Public Service School of Canada in the regions? For example, do French-speakers in Bathurst have the option of learning English? I have heard that French-speakers are facing problems too. They are essentially being told that they have to be bilingual if they want to get a job, but they are not being given any training.

[Karen Ellis]

Training is available all around Canada for those who need it, even in Bathurst. Both French-language and English-language training is available.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Is training actually available in Bathurst or do people have to go elsewhere?

[Donna Achimov]

Mr. Dufour, could you tell us if training is available in Bathurst?

[Sylvain Dufour, Director General, Language Training Center, Canada School of Public Service]

No, I do not believe that there is a school in Bathurst. That being said, we offer training in two different ways. People can go to one of the large centres for full-time language training or they can study at their own pace from home by using the online tools that we developed with funding we received under the action plan. That allows them to remain with their families.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

The action plan...

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you very much, Mr. Godin.

We are now going to move on to Mr. Pierre Lemieux.

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Thank you very much.

Thank you for your presentations. There is always work to be done. I was pleased to hear you talk about concrete plans and programs to improve the situation. You have set specific targets to ensure progress in all sectors.

My question is for Ms. Duchesne and concerns cooperation between the Department of Justice and official language minority communities.

Your department has a number of mechanisms aiming to ensure the implementation of section 41 of part VII of the Official Languages Act. Amongst these mechanisms is the Access to Justice in Both Official Languages Fund, which seeks precisely to support the communities.

I was wondering whether you could provide us with further information as to how the fund operates and give us some examples of concrete initiatives that it has made possible? Could you give us an overview of the impact that the fund has had thus far?

[Andrée Duchesne]

I could certainly try to do so. It would be my pleasure.

As I explained, the fund is the key financial asset that the department has for supporting official language communities. It is dedicated to improving access to justice in both official languages. This means that we work with both government and non-government partners.

One of our most concrete measures was providing base funding for associations of French-speaking jurists outside of Quebec. The fund supported both provincial and national associations. These associations take their work very seriously. They rolled up their sleeves and carried out a prodigious amount of work with other community groups not involved in the legal field. They succeeded in integrating into their respective communities and becoming key partners. They also began working in a far more effective and proactive manner with the provincial governments on justice issues. We saw this happen in Saskatchewan, Manitoba and Ontario, where there is a very special working relationship between Justice Ontario, the Association of French-Speaking Jurists of Ontario and community groups. This allowed the community groups to find some stability and develop their administrative capacity, which, in turn, was also beneficial to other community groups.

With regard to projects, one of our most promising is one that promotes legal careers in French outwith Quebec. It was initially piloted by the Association des juristes d'expression française, but now operates on a national level. Its aim is to offer young bilingual Canadians legal training so that our justice system can meet the demand for service in both official languages.

I would also like to draw your attention to an achievement that has been made possible thanks to cooperation with the provinces and the territories. I am referring here to the Federal-Provincial-Territorial Working Group on Access to Justice in Both Official Languages and all the work that has been carried out together with Justice Ontario, the Association of French-Speaking Jurists of Ontario and the Institut de développement professionnel en langue française to support bilingual crown prosecutors.

When we began working with our provincial and territorial colleagues, it was clear that bilingual crown prosecutors were isolated. They had access neither to training nor to skills upgrading, which made it very difficult for them to provide services in French to those wanting to be tried for criminal matters in the language of their choice. We have worked very hard for the past three or four years on this front. Currently, the success rate of prosecutors who undergo this training once a year is very high. These are some very concrete examples of what has been done thanks to our fund.

As I was saying earlier, I would encourage you to read the summative evaluation of the fund that is available on the department's web page.

Does that answer your question?

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Yes, thank you. It is a great program, a great initiative.

I'd like to ask a question of Ms. Ellis.

In your presentation you spoke about recruitment, particularly of young bilingual Canadians, to the public service. I think that's a good goal; however, there is concern as well.

Unilingual French and English-speakers feel that the public service is closed to them, that a wall stops them from getting in,

to become part of the public service at the entry level. I'm wondering how you would comment on that.

I'm wondering, also, if you have any statistics--percentage-wise--at the entry level, if there is such a thing, on unilingual positions and bilingual positions.

[Karen Ellis]

Thank you very much.

I would like to just say I had meant to present my colleague, Kelly Collins, and I apologize for not doing that. Kelly is here with me.

Just on the last point, certainly there would likely be some statistics available. We wouldn't have them with us right now, but we would be happy to follow up with the committee clerk.

You raise a very important question. Again, I would like just to go back to what I said in my opening remarks about the importance of good planning by departments. If they are really thinking about their business needs and the people and talents and skills they need to do that business, they can then start to develop really effective recruiting strategies and they can look specifically at questions around language needs for the workforce they have.

I think we have to really value diversity in the public service. When we talk about diversity, yes, it's employment equity groups, but it's also diversity from the regions of Canada, the different perspectives of Canada. So the point you raise is that we need to be open and inclusive in representing Canada's population.

If you were going to be recruiting, you could, as a department, plan a process where you would be very open to people who might be unilingual in one language or the other. When they come in the door--once you've recruited them and you bring them in--you need to have a manager who's hired them in that work unit who will actually start to work with them from the minute they come into the public service to determine what their learning needs are, where the second language training will fit in.

What I would say to you is that in order to enable people to advance in the public service, if that's what they wish to do, we have to get them going early, in terms of their second language training, because of course it's key. Especially as you get to the more senior levels, you do have to have certain levels.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you, Monsieur Lemieux. Merci beaucoup.

Now we will move to our second round and go on with Mr. Jean-Claude D'Amours.

[Jean-Claude D'Amours, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you for being here with us this morning.

Ms. Ellis, I listened to your presentation, I read it and I took notes. I also listened to the questions my colleagues asked and to the answers you gave. It seems that virtually anything that happens once an employee has been hired is a matter of departmental responsibility. In short, it would seem that you put official languages policies in place and then hope that the departments and agencies will respect them.

Is that correct?

[Karen Ellis]

It is not only a matter of hoping that they implement them. We carry out rigorous evaluations together with the departments to measure the effects of these policies.

[Jean-Claude D'Amours, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Okay, you carry out evaluations.

You say: “[...] our role is to provide institutions subject to the act the support they need to fulfil their responsibilities for official languages.” Furthermore, you say that you want to recruit more young bilingual Canadians to the public service. You also want managers to: “[...] work with their employees to ensure that bilingualism is further rooted in the workplace.” That all sounds great.

However, when I was in my car this morning, I heard a recruitment advertisement for the RCMP on the radio. I got a copy of the text to be certain that I understood properly. One of the skills required to become a member of the RCMP... And we know the problems that the RCMP is facing around the country. The RCMP has had problems with bilingualism, it still has them, and I imagine it will continue to have them in the future. Problems with bilingualism are ubiquitous in the RCMP. In spite of that, however, in its radio and Internet recruitment advertisements, the RCMP specifies that candidates must be “proficient in English or French”. I would certainly hope that candidates would have to be proficient in either one or the other—if not, we would certainly have a problem on our hands! I find it a little bit strange. We know that the RCMP has problems with regard to bilingualism. You said that you wanted to ensure that young Canadians were increasingly bilingual and able to work in bilingual positions. However, quite the opposite message is being communicated by the job offer that I heard on the radio this morning, which states that proficiency in one of Canada's two official languages is enough.

If it is enough to be proficient in one of the two official languages to get a job with the RCMP, French-speakers will end up only working in Quebec and English-speakers will end up working only outside of Quebec. I come from New Brunswick and I cannot help but wonder how members of official language minority communities will get service in their language if RCMP officers are required to speak only English or French. The RCMP are currently using this advertisement even though they are under fire for shortcomings with regard to bilingualism.

[Karen Ellis]

It is true that certain cases involving the RCMP are currently under review. I refer back to the organization's overall planning. The RCMP is the real planner. It must gauge official languages' needs throughout the various regions of Canada and plan accordingly. It must provide necessary services in the language required when needs arise.

As far as I'm concerned, it is a matter of understanding to what extent any given organization carries out adequate planning to meet official language needs and determine what is required of the bilingual positions within their organization. Fundamental actions must be taken to address these issues. You talk about symptoms. Departments must invest in planning, recruitment, training; this is fundamental. As I have already stated, no matter what department one is dealing with, they all must have concrete plans to train their people. If language training is necessary, this must be decided early on, and investments must be made.

[Jean-Claude D'Amours, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Ms. Ellis—

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you, Mr. D'Amours.

[Jean-Claude D'Amours, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Is my time already up?

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Yes.

I wish to make a clarification. This document clearly shows that Ms. Ellis, from the Public Service Agency of Canada, is responsible for enforcing official languages policies within organizations such as Treasury Board, which happens to be the employer. This is not the case with the RCMP.

[Jean-Claude D'Amours, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

That is indicated in the presentation.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Then perhaps—

[Jean-Claude D'Amours, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Mr. Chairman, that is written on page 2 of the presentation.

[Karen Ellis]

Gentlemen, may I correct a mistake? We work with 200 institutions, including the RCMP. There are departments, agencies, and 200 institutions, including Air Canada, for example.