Official Languages Committee on April 8th, 2008

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Point of order, Mr. Chair. You know the rules of the committee. When a question is put to a witness and we are looking for a precise answer given the limited amount of time, it is up to the witness to answer our question directly. That prevents any to-and-from rhetoric between the witness and members of the committee.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Very well. That is why it is important that not everyone talk at the same time.

Mr. Lebel.

[Denis Lebel, Conservative, Roberval—Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

If the question is partisan and contains remarks that upset the witness and twist the meaning of the question, I would hope that we could hear the witness clarify the matter. Otherwise, we should simply be asking questions.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Very well. Thank you very much. I find that the point of order has been heard. We will now move on and I will yield the floor to Daniel Petit from the government side.

Mr. Petit.

[Daniel Petit, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Thank you very much.

Good morning, Mr. Lord. I would first like to thank you for having accepted the committee's invitation. Secondly, even though nobody is aware of this, you were our neighbours in Quebec City, because you lived in L'Ancienne-Lorette for quite some time. I note that you rose so far as to become the Premier of New Brunswick. That is a great honour.

After receiving your mandate, you read what had already been done. In your opening statement, you said that you had been given all the recommendations. Those recommendations were made by our government. For 25 years, this committee had never visited francophone communities. But our government made that happen. The committee toured Canada from East to West and tried to see exactly what was going on. I only took part in the eastern leg, ie, Mr. Godin's region. We met with about 20 people who only talked to us about the Court Challenges Program. We also received a very warm welcome in Newfoundland.

We were asked a number of questions, and the issue of federal funding was brought up repeatedly. Many organizations told us that they received funding not only from the federal government, but also from the provinces and private companies, in order to support their communities.

What I am getting at is the issue of responsibility. There are several orders of government. I come from Quebec, so you will understand that I am very wary of encroachments in the area of education. I am very sensitive to such programs as the Court Challenges Program, which can be used to attack Bill 101. I am also concerned about encroachments on health care.

When you were Premier of New Brunswick, you managed those issues differently. I don't necessarily want you to talk about your province, but could you share with me how you think the various stakeholders should cooperate? How could responsibilities be shared?

It is all well and good to earmark $1 billion —and perhaps another $500 million from another source—but if I don't know where to invest it... You made a number of recommendations in various sectors. I would like you to give us an overall view of the people who will be working towards common objectives.

[Bernard Lord]

Thank you very much, sir, for your question.

You wish to protect areas of provincial jurisdiction, and as a former premier of New Brunswick, I agree with you. All too often in the past, the federal government tried to interfere in areas of provincial jurisdiction unrequested. That led to all kinds of situations in Canada, and I would like to congratulate the current Government of Canada for wanting to respect provincial jurisdictions. It is demonstrating a renewed federalism by wanting to work in partnership with the provinces, while respecting our Constitution and the fact that we live in a federation. In my view, that is key to the success of programs dealing with official languages, as well as our country's social and economic issues.

That is why recommendation 10, on page 22, states the following:

I recommend that the new strategy for the next phase of the Action Plan be implemented in close collaboration with the provinces and territories and that these partnerships respect jurisdictions and reflect the constitutional and legal responsibilities of each level of government.

My report also deals with health issues, which were raised in the course of the consultations. It is an area where minority language communities would like to see other improvements. I would like to name one success story: the achievements of the Société Santé en français.

All the recommendations must respect the Canadian Constitution and the jurisdictions of the federal and provincial governments. By respecting the jurisdictions and responsibilities of all levels of government, you can create partnerships that are more solid and sustainable in the long term. That is what the current government appears to be doing, and I congratulate it for that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you very much, Mr. Lord.

We will now move back to the opposition side, with Raymond Gravel of the Bloc Québécois.

[Raymond Gravel, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for being here with us, Mr. Lord.

I will not beat around the bush because I only have five minutes. I would like to come back to a question that my colleague asked you earlier. He asked you whether the French language or bilingualism was under threat in Canada. You answered that neither were, that both were doing well. And yet, we all know that Quebeckers have to pass legislation to protect the French language, even if they live in the only majority French province. I wonder how we can conclude that the French language is not under threat in the other provinces, where francophones are in the minority.

I would like to hear your comments on that.

[Bernard Lord]

Thank you very much, Mr. Gravel. The question was which of the two was in greater danger. That was the question I was asked earlier. I said that there were challenges. I clearly realize that. My report reflects the comments that I heard as to the challenges to the French language in minority language communities in western Canada and in some provinces out east. I also heard about the challenges to the anglophone minority community in some regions of Quebec. In other areas of the country, bilingualism itself poses a number of challenges, as when governments decide to eliminate immersion programs, for example.

[Raymond Gravel, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Now I will change the subject and I will talk about senior citizens. I am involved with this file. In your report, I saw that you have met with organizations that represent francophone senior citizens in Canada, francophone senior citizens in Ontario and Franco-Albertans. There is no mention of this anywhere in your report.

Can senior citizens who live in homes, or in other environments, live in French in those provinces where French is a minority language?

[Bernard Lord]

In some provinces, that is the case. I met people who had worked and built senior citizen homes, or specialized care centres for senior citizens, so that they could live in their own language. This has also been done in western Canada. Of course, there are also such homes in eastern Canada.

In New Brunswick, the situation is special because it is a bilingual province, but there are homes for senior citizens. I met senior citizens and I listened to them. This is one of the subjects regarding which I was wondering whether or not I should make another recommendation. I chose to cut down on the number of recommendations. The term health care can be taken as a very general term. I think that it is important to make sure that senior citizens can live and grow old in the official language of their choice. This will require more work.

[Raymond Gravel, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

I think that being old and often ill causes insecurity, all the more so as senior citizens often live below the poverty threshold. We asked for an adjustment of the Guaranteed Income Supplement, because they are living below the low-income level. No doubt, if they cannot live and grow old in their own language, it causes so much insecurity that it can even lead to depression or premature demise.

[Bernard Lord]

I agree with you, Mr. Gravel, that old age and illness can cause insecurity, at any age. Things are even more difficult and complicated if you cannot receive care in your own language. This can make a person feel even more insecure. I am aware of this fact, I have heard about it. This is why we must get to work on this. I made recommendations that are rather general in scope, because this is my mandate. However, I heard about these things and I mentioned them in the report. I am glad to expand on this subject today.

[Raymond Gravel, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

The numbers of senior citizens are growing. At the other extreme, regarding early childhood, you know that the Conservatives got rid of the child care programs. Nevertheless, we know very well that funds are needed. You also made a vague reference to this in your report.

What do you think of the fact that early childhood must get the best possible care?

[Bernard Lord]

The Canadian government has launched a program to help all Canadian children by paying $100 per month for each child under the age of six. If I remember correctly, this is done all over Canada. It is a direct way to help parents and families to pay childcare costs and other costs. This was decided by the government.

The issues of early childhood and education were raised during the consultations. Various suggestions were made. There are things that can be done for pre-schooling, but provincial jurisdictions must be respected. Mr. Gravel, I am sure that you are not saying that I should have advised the federal government to set up an early childhood program that would infringe on provincial jurisdiction.

[Raymond Gravel, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Certainly not.

[Bernard Lord]

We can come back to this at some other time.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Mr. Godin, you have five minutes.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Lord, who decided that your meetings would be held in camera?

[Bernard Lord]

The department which had prepared the meetings and the consultations. It was done in that way.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

It was done in that way.

[Bernard Lord]

You asked me who did it; I answered you.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

I like a straightforward answer.

[Bernard Lord]

And I like straightforward questions.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

What are the differences between the 14 recommendations in your report and those in the report from the Standing Committee on Official Languages?