Official Languages Committee on April 15th, 2008

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

It's my turn.

Mr. Chairman, I think today, CBC has not served Canada, and I can understand... I wouldn't go so far as to use extreme terminology like Claude Dubois did. I do not accept the word "racist".

One thing is for sure, sir, when I see your condescending and sanctimonious attitude and this attempt to divide our country, I would say you are fostering the concept of two solitudes in this country.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Let's continue with Mr. Chong.

Mr. Stursberg?

[Richard Stursberg]

I totally reject Mr. Coderre's comments. I am obviously not anti-francophone or against French culture in Canada. That is not true.

As I've said, I have made major efforts to bridge these two cultures. For my part, I've stated it and I'll repeat it, this is a major goal for the corporation, including CBC English.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you.

Mr. Chong, go ahead.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Stursberg, as a corporation you have two broad responsibilities that you have to fulfill as part of your mandate. Certainly I think you've been underfunded in recent years, but that's not what we're talking about today. Today we're talking about your mandate and how you are fulfilling it.

Broadly speaking, you have a mandate to fulfill that reflects the diversity of the country--as it's stated in subparagraph 3(1)(m)(viii) of the Broadcasting Act, to “reflect the multiracial and multicultural nature of Canada”--but you also have a responsibility to reflect the linguistic duality of the country and to build a shared national consciousness and identity.

My view is that you're doing some of that well, but you're not doing other parts of it well. I'm a Toronto-area member of Parliament. I listen to CBC Radio One all the time and I watch the main television network all the time. I think especially in the last four or five years both those products, Radio One and the main television network, have really started to reflect the diversity of the greater Toronto area. I think CBC has done a very good job in that regard. But when I think about the other part of your mandate, which is to build this shared national consciousness and identity—an integral part of which is the linguistic duality of the country—I think in that regard, in the greater Toronto area, you've completely neglected that part of your mandate.

Other than the occasional program here and there, you would have no clue that Canada is an officially bilingual country, that its federal institutions are officially bilingual. You wouldn't have a clue of that if you were to listen to Radio One or to the main television network as a resident living in the greater Toronto area. The newscasts at the top of the hour on Radio One are in no way linked to the newscasts at the top of the hour on La Première Chaîne. The National on the main television network each night is pretty disconnected from Le Téléjournal on Radio-Canada.

I think in that regard, as I said before, you're doing some things well, but in terms of bridging the linguistic duality of the country, you're not.

If I look at Radio-Canada in Quebec, I think the opposite is true. Obviously you're fulfilling your mandate when it comes to delivering French-language programming there. I think arguably you're much more successful as a corporation there than in English-speaking Canada because of the fact that we're living on an English-speaking continent. But in terms of reflecting the diversity, the increasing diversity of the country, I don't get the sense that's happening in French-language programming to the extent that it's happening in English-language programming.

I do think there are big areas for improvement, and that's one of the reasons we have you here today. I think when we go on a tangent about other issues, then people start getting prickly about that stuff. But I do think it's important that the corporation look at this stuff in the longer term, because this is going to be the big challenge facing this country, and I would hope that CBC would have a big role to play in bridging those solitudes and in trying to meet its mandate.

[Richard Stursberg]

As I said throughout the course of the morning, I don't disagree with you at all. I completely agree with you, and I agree with all the members here, as to the nature of our responsibilities. But I'm a little bit surprised to hear you say this, because if at any time in the last two years you turned on CBC English television, you would have seen the remake of Rumeurs. You would have seen the remake of Sophie Paquin, you would have seen--

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

No, I understand that. But why, for example, are the domestic news-gathering journalists...? Why is there very little crossover between the two organizations in terms of delivering the news? The stories you see on The National and the stories on Le Téléjournal are completely different when it comes to domestic news.

Here's another example. There are 60,000 francophones living in the greater Toronto area--more than in many provinces. That's just in one city region. Yet we don't have proper coverage of La Première Chaîne. You can't really get CBC's La Première Chaîne, the French-language service, in any sort of quality in the greater Toronto area, even though there are 60,000 or more francophones living in that region--more than in many provinces, including Manitoba or British Columbia.

The point I'm making is that there's room for improvement. To so breezily dismiss the fact that there is room for improvement is.... I think it's the reason why so many members of the committee are being prickly today.

[Richard Stursberg]

Nobody disagrees that there's room for improvement. This is why I was saying that we've worked very hard in terms of the foreign bureaus to make sure they report in both French and English. We're working very hard to make sure the domestic bureaus are more bilingual.

We've been working very hard across all those sorts of things, but the truth of the matter is that if you ask people to broadcast in both languages, they have to have a level of bilingualism that is rare. That's all I'm saying. It's very difficult to do.

We would like to do more, absolutely. We're totally with you on this point.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you, Mr. Stursberg.

Monsieur Gravel.

[Raymond Gravel, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Mr. Stursberg: you said you were not anti-francophone, alright, and that you were in favour of bridging francophone and anglophone culture. It would seem to me the hall of fame gala was a great opportunity to do that. Why did you not build that bridge at that time?

[Richard Stursberg]

I can repeat exactly what I've said several times this morning. We decided to broadcast the entire hall of fame gala on Radio One, but to only broadcast a 44-minute television special. That is the decision we made. Apart from that, I don't know what else to say exactly.

[Raymond Gravel, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Do you regret your decision?

[Richard Stursberg]

I understand you believe it was a mistake on our part.

[Raymond Gravel, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Do you regret your decision, sir?

[Richard Stursberg]

We are currently reviewing what we will be doing in the future. It has not yet been decided. I am here this morning to hear what you have to say and to have this conversation.

[Raymond Gravel, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

I believe that—

[Richard Stursberg]

It will give us food for thought as to what we should do in the future.

[Raymond Gravel, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

If you make the same decision at the next gala, please do not invite francophones, out of respect. You cannot invite people and then tell them they will not be on the show. Do not invite them. Hold an anglophone-only gala and continue to uphold these two solitudes, as was stated earlier on. Do not invite francophones simply to have them end up on the cutting room floor. It's just common sense.

[Richard Stursberg]

We do not invite people to the hall of fame. The hall of fame is not controlled by the CBC. It is a separate organization from the CBC.

[Raymond Gravel, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

If the hall of fame invites francophones in the future, they should appear in the final cut. You have to respect both cultures, sir, otherwise, it just won't work.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you, Mr. Gravel.

That completes the questioning.

I could give Mr. Rodriguez and Mr. Petit a few minutes, because, after all, Mr. Petit is the one who asked that we invite this witness to appear before us. After that, I would like to make a few closing remarks.

Mr. Rodriguez.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

Mr. Stursberg, you have heard my colleagues from the Bloc Québécois say that this is one of the reasons why they are sovereignists. You realize that by doing what you did, you were not being helpful to Canada, but rather to the sovereignist movement. You are helping perpetuate the two solitudes. You know that. You decided not to broadcast a francophone in English-speaking Canada. If francophones were to do the same thing, we will keep the two solitudes forever.

If the CBC does not bring francophones and anglophones together, who can do so, Mr. Stursberg?

[Richard Stursberg]

Once again, I repeat that I could not agree more. We certainly understand that it is our responsibility to reflect the two main cultures in this country. However, we have to look at the decision regarding the Hall of Fame gala in the context of everything else that the corporation does.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

No, because there is one main music event, and that is the gala. You blew it.

I have one last question, and I will be brief. One of my colleagues asked you whether Claude Dubois would have been broadcast if he had song in English, and you said no, because he is not well-known.

If Céline Dion had sung in French, would she have been broadcast on CBC?

[Richard Stursberg]

She is very well-known in Canada.