Evidence of meeting #11 for Official Languages in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was university.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

André Dulude  Vice-President, National Affairs, Association of Universities and Colleges of Canada
Marielle Poirier  Member of the Board of Directors, Director General, Cégep de l'Outaouais, Fédération des cégeps
Luc Rainville  Coordinator, Office of the President and Senior Advisor, Francophonie Affairs, Association of Universities and Colleges of Canada

9:05 a.m.

NDP

The Vice-Chair NDP Yvon Godin

Order, please. We are going to start the meeting. First, I would like to welcome our witnesses.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), we are conducting a study on the federal government's support for postsecondary institutions and their efforts in promoting bilingualism in Canada.

Today we have Mr. André Dulude, Vice-President for National Affairs, from the Association of Universities and Colleges of Canada, and Mr. Luc Rainville, Coordinator of the Office of the President and Senior Advisor, Francophonie Affairs at that same association. Then we will hear from Ms. Marielle Poirier, member of the board of directors of the Fédération des cégeps.

We give you about 10 minutes to present your proposals. Then there will be a period of questions and answers concerning this study.

Mr. Dulude.

9:05 a.m.

André Dulude Vice-President, National Affairs, Association of Universities and Colleges of Canada

Mr. Chairman, I would like to thank you for inviting the Association of Universities and Colleges of Canada (AUCC) to speak to the Committee as it examines the federal government’s support for postsecondary institutions and their efforts in promoting bilingualism in Canada.

My name is André Dulude. I am Vice-President, National Affairs of the Association of Universities and Colleges of Canada. I am accompanied by my colleague Luc Rainville, Executive Assistant to the President and Senior Advisor, Francophonie Affairs.

AUCC was created in 1911 and incorporated by an act of Parliament in 1965. For nearly 100 years it has served and promoted the interests of its member institutions in the official language of their choice. AUCC represents 94 public and private not-for-profit universities and degree-level colleges across Canada. Some of our members teach primarily in English and some primarily in French, and some are completely or partially bilingual.

An important role of Canadian universities is to ensure that the new generation it is educating is aware of and can respond to not only the realities of Canadian society but, increasingly, international realities as well. In the Canadian context, AUCC's position is that relations and improved communication between our official language communities are important aspects of the Canadian identity, which universities and AUCC should help foster.

AUCC believes that:

- bilingual competence is most effectively developed at the elementary and secondary levels and that universities should encourage prospective students to have acquired a working knowledge of their other official language;

- universities have an important role to play in promoting and further developing bilingual competence in Canadian society;

- universities should work toward improving bilingualism in Canada by providing opportunities within their own institutions for the development of bilingual competence;

- universities should encourage students to become competent in their other official language;

- universities should develop their ability to foster bilingualism;

- universities should encourage bilingualism by providing opportunities for student and faculty exchanges with universities operating in the other official language;

- universities should promote among students, faculty and the communities in which they are located, knowledge of and interest in the cultural heritage of Canada’s two official language groups; and

- governments should provide to Canadian universities sufficient financial resources to facilitate the promotion of bilingualism as outlined above.

For these reasons, the President of AUCC gladly accepted the invitation of the Commissioner of Official Languages, Graham Fraser, to join him in a study of second language learning opportunities in Canadian universities.

Members of this Committee may remember that Mr. Fraser announced the study when he appeared before you in November 2007.

The Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages is now at the point of concluding the study that began in early 2008. The advisory committee overseeing it will hold its final meeting in April. The study's findings, including the suggestions and recommendations made, will be reviewed and will form the basis of proposals and plans for the future. We are as eager as you are to know what the findings of the study will be.

Once again, Mr. Chairman, we thank you and the committee for your time, and we would welcome any questions committee members may have. Merci.

9:10 a.m.

NDP

The Vice-Chair NDP Yvon Godin

Now we'll go to Ms. Marielle Poirier.

9:10 a.m.

Marielle Poirier Member of the Board of Directors, Director General, Cégep de l'Outaouais, Fédération des cégeps

Mr. Chairman, committee members, ladies and gentlemen, thank you for inviting the Fédération des cégeps, whom I am representing this morning. I am Marielle Poirier, Director General of the Cégep de l'Outaouais and member of the board of directors of the Fédération des cégeps.

Despite the short period of time allotted to us to prepare these remarks, it is my pleasure to provide you with some essential information on the second language issue and, more particularly, on instruction and support for the English language minority at Quebec's colleges.

I'll begin with a brief introduction on Quebec's special circumstances. I'll be telling you nothing new by stating at the outset the Quebec government's position that it wants to ensure the preponderance of French in a North American context with a very strong anglophone majority, in particular the obligation for allophones to enrol in francophone institutions for the entire duration of their education at the primary and secondary levels. However, our government acknowledges the strong anglophone community within its borders whose development it wishes to support.

To better understand the Quebec government's policy choices respecting postsecondary education, particularly at the college level, I must inform you of certain special characteristics of the CEGEPs, a unique educational model in the world. First, their twofold mission is to prepare students for a university education through a two-year training program, which they are required to take before enrolling in a bachelor's degree program, and to prepare students for the labour market, a three-year program.

The CEGEPs are institutions that report to the Government of Quebec. Their programs are determined by the government and diplomas are awarded by the Minister of Education, Recreation and Sport. Some 85% of CEGEP funding is provided out of public funds. Free tuition is another of our special characteristics and applies to all students enrolled in regular programs on a full-time basis and to most adults enrolled in full-time programs.

The actions of the colleges must be viewed in this broader context: they have less independence from the department than Quebec universities and less independence than the colleges in the other Canadian provinces. The operations of the colleges are conducted in accordance with their constituent legislation and the College Education Regulations, which does not alter the fact that considerable effort is made on an institutionalized basis and in accordance with the national approach. I'll return to that point in a few moments.

This special Quebec context also derives from our vision for the mission of a CEGEP, for what it is, the reason why it was conceived: an institution that prepares students to pursue a university education or to enter the labour market, but that also promotes students' social and cultural development in as broad a manner as possible and encourages openness to the world. Hence the importance attached not only to proficiency in the language of instruction, but also to proficiency in the second language and even a third language, for the purpose of student mobility and for students' future as workers across Canada, North America and the world.

What do Quebec's colleges do to promote second-language learning? My answer is that they do a great deal and more than elsewhere in Canada. A great deal, through all the programs offered in the regular teaching stream, a number of programs offered to adults and through the wealth and variety of learning activities: courses, international practicums, exchanges between anglophone and francophone colleges, and extra-curricular activities, in both the socio-cultural and athletic fields.

Now let's talk about general training study programs.

All the study programs offered at pre-university and technical anglophone and francophone institutions have a general training component, a core curriculum equivalent to a full year of training which, in addition to philosophy, physical health and two additional courses selected by students in disciplines other than that of their field of study, provides for students to learn the language of instruction and its literature and the second language to a high degree of proficiency based on knowledge acquired at the primary and secondary levels. The objective is to reinforce second-language proficiency in all college diploma holders.

The study programs themselves, because they address labour market requirements, provide second-language courses and practicums, as are found, for example, in the multimedia, administrative technologies and tourism programs, to name only a few.

There are also double DECs, which emphasize second-language and even third-language proficiency. I'm thinking of the Human Sciences and Languages program and the Science and Languages program at the Cégep de Lévis-Lauzon, and of the language profile in the Arts and Letters program and in the History and Civilization program.

We also have help centres and other support measures to consolidate students' second-language learning.

Program summary tests are another feature unique to Quebec. To earn a college diploma, students must, in addition to all program courses, take a comprehensive examination that attests to their acquisition of all program competencies, including second-language proficiency.

The same is true of continuing education programs. We offer a lot of training at the request of businesses that may demand second-language proficiency as a diploma requirement.

Second, what do Quebec's colleges do to support anglophone minority development? The five anglophone colleges offer the anglophone community exactly the same college services, in their language, as are offered to francophones. Anglophones are subject to the same obligation respecting the general training program and second-language learning. They are offered a broad range of programs, in a rich living environment, and socio-cultural, athletic and other activities. In the regular education program, 24,000 students attend these institutions, including nearly 5,000 francophones, depending on the year, which represents more than 15% of the total college student population. In other words, the 24,000 anglophone students at the anglophone colleges represent 15% of the total clientele of Quebec's colleges. Quebec's largest public college, Dawson College, is an anglophone institution. In addition, approximately 800 anglophones, their numbers varying from year to year, choose to study at a francophone CEGEP.

We also have bilingual colleges; there are two in Quebec, the Cégep de la Gaspésie et des îles and the Cégep de Sept-Îles, which offer a number of programs in English to the anglophone minorities in their region.

Lastly, the various service organizations in the college system, which mainly support the work of the colleges' teachers and professors are increasingly developing services in English as well, through budgets under the Canada-Quebec Accord. In particular, these include the Performa program, a new teacher integration program offered in English and in French, Cégep@distance, which prepares courses and material in English, and the Centre collégial de développement de matériel didactique, which develops teaching material in English and in French.

In conclusion, I will say that the anglophone minority is well served, institutionally and nationally, and that we offer the francophone population extensive resources for achieving proficiency in English as a second language. New measures are on the horizon. The department is currently working with the colleges to record college-level second-language proficiency levels on college report cards. We are developing a sixth additional general training field that could be used to afford students who already have good language levels but wish to go further the opportunity to further develop their language proficiency.

I will close by citing the example of the Conseil supérieur de l'éducation, which manages a permanent commission on issues and concerns related to English-language instruction in Quebec.

Thank you.

9:20 a.m.

NDP

Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB

Thank you for your presentation.

We now come to the part where members ask questions. We'll begin with a member of the official opposition.

Mr. Pablo Rodriguez, go ahead please.

9:20 a.m.

Liberal

Pablo Rodriguez Liberal Honoré-Mercier, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Good morning, everyone, and thank you for being here today.

I'm a bit curious. Ms. Poirier, you said there were bilingual CEGEPs in Quebec. Is that correct? I didn't know. Are there a number of students taking English courses in Gaspé?

9:20 a.m.

Member of the Board of Directors, Director General, Cégep de l'Outaouais, Fédération des cégeps

Marielle Poirier

As I was director of studies at the Cégep de la Gaspésie et des îles, I can tell you a lot about that. While the Cégep de Sept-Îles only offers one program in the second language, the Cégep de la Gaspésie et des îles offers the following programs: Natural Sciences, Social Science, Forestry Technology, Industrial Maintenance Technology, Office Systems Technology and Adventure Tourism. The CEGEP even has agreements with New Brunswick, which I developed when I was director of studies. The population of Campbellton, in particular, comes to study at the Cégep de la Gaspésie et des îles in programs in English that are not offered in English in the Campbellton region. That's the case in particular of—

9:20 a.m.

Liberal

Pablo Rodriguez Liberal Honoré-Mercier, QC

That's interesting for Jean-Claude D'Amours, who is the member for that region.

How many students are studying in English?

9:20 a.m.

Member of the Board of Directors, Director General, Cégep de l'Outaouais, Fédération des cégeps

Marielle Poirier

I can't give you the exact number, but they should represent approximately 25% of the total student body at the Cégep de la Gaspésie et des îles.

9:20 a.m.

Liberal

Pablo Rodriguez Liberal Honoré-Mercier, QC

How big is that student body?

9:20 a.m.

Member of the Board of Directors, Director General, Cégep de l'Outaouais, Fédération des cégeps

Marielle Poirier

At the time, it was about 1,800 students. As the regions are emptying, there are fewer and fewer of them. However, the anglophones are staying, as a result of which the percentage has tended to increase rather than decrease.

9:20 a.m.

Liberal

Pablo Rodriguez Liberal Honoré-Mercier, QC

Does the mix of French and English programs work well?

9:20 a.m.

Member of the Board of Directors, Director General, Cégep de l'Outaouais, Fédération des cégeps

Marielle Poirier

It works very well. As director of studies, I was responsible for all programs in English and French, and the English-language programs had their own supervisory infrastructure.

9:20 a.m.

Liberal

Pablo Rodriguez Liberal Honoré-Mercier, QC

Are there any second-language instruction programs?

9:20 a.m.

Member of the Board of Directors, Director General, Cégep de l'Outaouais, Fédération des cégeps

Marielle Poirier

The requirements in Quebec's CEGEPs are all the same, whether you're at an anglophone, francophone or bilingual college. It's the language of instruction that takes precedence. So if you're taking a program in French, you have to take the English-second-language training program to meet the requirements. If you're studying in English, you have to take the French-second-language general training program.

9:20 a.m.

Liberal

Pablo Rodriguez Liberal Honoré-Mercier, QC

Do you have any relationship with the federal government or is it really the Government of Quebec?

9:20 a.m.

Member of the Board of Directors, Director General, Cégep de l'Outaouais, Fédération des cégeps

Marielle Poirier

It's really the Government of Quebec.

9:20 a.m.

Liberal

Pablo Rodriguez Liberal Honoré-Mercier, QC

There aren't even any special programs. All right.

I'm going to turn to you, gentlemen. Are there any university programs that require functional knowledge of both languages in order to be admitted to them?

9:20 a.m.

Vice-President, National Affairs, Association of Universities and Colleges of Canada

André Dulude

At the universities, there is no requirement for admission or graduation.

9:20 a.m.

Liberal

Pablo Rodriguez Liberal Honoré-Mercier, QC

No program requires that a student know the other language for certain reasons.

9:20 a.m.

Vice-President, National Affairs, Association of Universities and Colleges of Canada

André Dulude

One may assume, however, that there are requirements for French literature programs. At Queen's University, certain specific programs require knowledge of French, but that's not general.

Luc, do you want to add something?

9:20 a.m.

Luc Rainville Coordinator, Office of the President and Senior Advisor, Francophonie Affairs, Association of Universities and Colleges of Canada

Every university is responsible for establishing its admission and graduation criteria. It's a matter of academic freedom, which is a recognized principle across Canada and around the world. Currently, no university requires that a student know the second official language upon entry or at graduation. In a number of programs—André mentioned French literature—whether it be business administration, international administration or international trade, the universities will very often require a student to know the other language, English or French, or even a third or fourth language.

At HEC, most students are required to have functional proficiency for the international aspect of administration. They are obviously asked to have very good knowledge of English. The same is true at Ottawa and other universities.

9:25 a.m.

Liberal

Pablo Rodriguez Liberal Honoré-Mercier, QC

Do you receive funding directly from the federal government as part of a program?

9:25 a.m.

Vice-President, National Affairs, Association of Universities and Colleges of Canada

André Dulude

The association does not receive any funding, but funding is allocated to official languages. In 2006-2007, it was quite small: a total of $150 million was allocated to a number of programs, but not all were official language programs.

9:25 a.m.

NDP

Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB

Thank you.

We'll now go to Mr. Nadeau, of the Bloc Québécois.