Official Languages Committee on May 5th, 2009

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Lise Zarac]

I call the meeting to order.

Welcome, ladies and gentlemen. This morning, we will be hearing from Mr. Toews, Mrs. d'Auray and Mr. O'Sullivan.

I would like to simply mention that Mr. Toews will be with us until only 10 o'clock, but that Mr. O'Sullivan and Mrs. d'Auray will remain here in order to answer any of your supplementary questions. We will therefore begin with Mr. Toews. After his presentation, we will have a first round of questions and answers.

Mr. Toews, good morning. We're happy to have you with us this morning.

[Vic Toews, Conservative, President of the Treasury Board]

Thank you. It's my pleasure.

Would you like me to start, then, Madam Chair?

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Lise Zarac]

Yes, please.

[Vic Toews, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

Thank you very much.

Members of the committee, Madam Chair, thank you for giving me an opportunity to speak to you today.

I have with me today two individuals whom you've no doubt met before: Michelle d'Auray, the chief human resources officer at the Treasury Board Secretariat, and Marc O'Sullivan, the acting senior vice-president of the workforce and workplace renewal sector, office of the chief human resources officer.

As you know, our government is committed to official languages, and we have made many efforts to ensure Canadians fully benefit from linguistic duality and its advantages.

As the President of the Treasury Board, I am responsible, first, for ensuring that Treasury Board develops and coordinates federal principles and programs for the application of the parts of the Official Languages Act dealing with delivering services in both official languages at offices designated as bilingual, in accordance with the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. That's in part IV of the act.

Second, I am responsible for creating and maintaining work environments that are conducive to the effective use of both official languages in regions designated as bilingual for language of work purposes. That is in part V of the act.

Third, I am responsible for ensuring the equitable participation of members of both official language communities in federal workforces and equal employment and advancement opportunities for both communities in federal institutions. That is part VI of the act.

Complementary to the efforts of my colleague, the Hon. James Moore, Minister of Canadian Heritage and Official Languages, I also play a role in applying part VII of the act in institutions. Specifically, I ensure that initiatives that Treasury Board is asked to approve take into account the enhancement and development of official language minority communities.

In addition, at the end of each fiscal year I am responsible for tabling in Parliament a report on the official languages program in institutions that are subject to the act.

I know that the Commissioner of Official Languages has expressed concerns about the creation of the office of the chief human resources officer. I would like to clarify this issue for the committee members.

As you know, on February 6 the Prime Minister announced a new human resources governance structure that provides for the creation of the office of the chief human resources officer within the Treasury Board Secretariat. The new office was established on March 2, 2009, by combining the functions of the former Canada Public Service Agency and the sectors within Treasury Board Secretariat responsible for pension, benefits, labour relations, and compensation.

In terms of official languages, the mandate of the office of the chief human resources officer includes providing support for institutions subject to the act to help them achieve their official languages objectives. Let me be clear: the restructuring has not in any way changed my responsibilities, nor those of the Treasury Board. The office of the chief human resources officer has the same responsibilities with respect to official languages as the agency had.

I would also like to recognize 2009 as the 40th anniversary of the Official Languages Act. Let me mention a few key achievements.

First, slightly over 90% of official language minority communities have access to federal services in their language. If we think back to 40 years ago, when communities had to communicate with federal institutions in the language of the majority, this is incredible progress. In 40 years we have gone from a practically unilingual public service to a bilingual public service in which employees can generally use the official language of their choice at work, subject, of course, to obligations relating to services to the public, other employees, and the supervision of employees. The percentage of bilingual positions increased from 25% in 1978 to 40% in 2007.

Linguistic duality is a cornerstone of our national identity and a source of immeasurable economic, social, and political benefits for all Canadians. Our government is committed to strengthening this duality. Our road map for Canada's linguistic duality for 2008-2013 includes an unprecedented five-year commitment to provide $1.1 billion in funding in support of the road map and is a sign of this commitment.

As our Prime Minister said, and I quote, the road map:

...reiterates the commitment of the Government of Canada to linguistic duality and our two official languages. It lays out the path we intend to follow over the next five years to build on Canada's sturdy foundations. English- and French-speaking Canadians have come a long way together since the founding of Quebec City.

This Roadmap points the way to an even stronger future and a more unified Canada.

Additionally, our government has a centre of excellence for official languages within the Treasury Board Secretariat, which will continue to be a leader and closely monitor official languages developments in federal institutions. This centre of excellence is working on including official languages in each of the four priority areas for public service renewal: first, integrated human resource planning; second, recruitment; third, employee development; and fourth, enabling infrastructure.

I would also like to point out that one of the objectives for 2009 is to continue recognizing the place of Canada's two official languages in the workplace. Overall, the situation is positive. According to the 2005 public service employees survey, 86% of employees feel free to use the official language of their choice when they prepare written materials; 90% of employees feel free to use the official language of their choice when they communicate with their supervisors; 85% of employees feel free to use the official language of their choice during meetings in their work units; and 93% of employees say that the material and tools provided for work are available in the official language of their choice.

In closing, linguistic duality is a major asset for both the public service and Canadians. Canadians need a modern public service that provides services in both official languages and is representative of the various communities making up Canadian society.

So, Madam Chair, my officials and I are happy to take your questions. Thank you.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Lise Zarac]

First of all, let me thank you for your presentation. You mentioned that you wanted to clarify the situation, and it is following the commissioner's visit here that the committee had invited you, because of the concerns he had. So thank you for coming here to clarify the situation.

I will give the first round of questions to Mr. Rodriguez.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

Good morning, Minister. Welcome to the committee.

I would like to thank each of you for coming here today.

Minister, do you speak French?

[Vic Toews, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

No, I don't.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

Do you not feel that someone with your responsibilities should be bilingual?

[Vic Toews, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

I consider that quite an insult. I speak two other languages other than English. I don't speak French, but I should feel free to speak the official language of my choice. For you to even ask that question is an insult.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

This is not an insult, Minister. I, too, speak other languages. However, there are two official languages in Canada: French and English. In my opinion, when you hold a position such as yours, it is important that you be able to express yourself in both official languages and understand them. And here I am not referring to languages other than French and English. I, too, speak other languages.

Do you not think that deputy ministers should be bilingual?

[Vic Toews, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

There are official languages policies that require officials such as deputy ministers and assistant deputy ministers to speak both official languages.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

I am referring to deputy ministers.

[Vic Toews, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

I'm sorry, I misunderstood your question. The assistant deputy ministers are required to speak English and French to a certain level, and the deputy ministers are taken from that pool. I'm not aware of any deputy ministers who don't speak French, but you may have a point there. I don't know.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

French or English, no....

If there are no obligations with respect to deputy ministers, I think it is important to give some thought to the matter.

You referred to the Roadmap for linguistic duality in your presentation. I am under the impression that not many details have been provided on this issue. Statements of principle have been proposed and discussed. However, I would like to know what your role is, as a minister, with respect to this Roadmap.

[Vic Toews, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

I know that generally speaking, the Treasury Board's responsibilities related to official languages are supportive ones. Treasury Board is responsible for overseeing the overall application of the act with regard to services to the public, language of work, and equitable participation. In that context, it adapts and adopts policy instruments, and it oversees the status of the official languages program.

With respect to the road map, there are three departments specifically charged with responsibility for that, and they are Canadian Heritage, Health, and Justice. Those departments bear the responsibility for implementing that program.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

That does not seem to be very clear to me.

Do you spend any time on official languages in your capacity as minister? How much time do you spend on this file?

[Vic Toews, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

I'll have to check my records and get back to you on that.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

Do you have any idea how much time you spend on this file? It seems to me that you have to look into a good number of things, Minister, and that if the officials were not here, you would not have been able to answer even one question up until now.

[Vic Toews, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

I couldn't answer that with them, or without them, without checking my files.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

I don't get the feeling that we are getting very far right now.

A few years ago, we adopted Bill S-3, which furthered the Official Languages Act somewhat. The bill pertained to the development of minority official language communities.

Do you feel that you have a role to play in this area?

[Vic Toews, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

I've indicated my responsibilities in respect of parts IV, V, and VI of the act. I would indicate that Treasury Board submissions have to ensure access to services.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Lise Zarac]

Thank you, Mr. Rodriguez.

We will now turn the floor over to Mr. Nadeau.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Good morning, Minister, Mrs. d'Auray, Mr. O'Sullivan.

As Mr. Rodriguez was pointing out, there is some discomfort in Canada with respect to official languages. There is the issue of the assimilation of minority linguistic groups, which we are all very familiar with. Francophones are being assimilated. Mr. Toews, you know something about this, since you come from Manitoba. People in that province have worked very hard, but the level of assimilation remains very high. I think the Canadian government should reconsider the following question, which is important. If the government wants to demonstrate a real desire to support linguistic duality in this country we call Canada, the leaders of the government should set an example. Hence, the Prime Minister and his ministers should have a good command of both French and English.

This is part of a dilemma which is obvious when we look at representatives of the Supreme Court and deputy ministers, who represent the Canadian state. You know my position on the subject and I know that you do not share it. You demonstrated this earlier. In my opinion, you should not feel insulted. As a francophone Quebecker, I find the position taken by the federal government very hard to swallow. That being said, I think that's Canada and it's unfortunate.

With respect with the Roadmap, I see that the government was going to invest $2.7 million in this plan to ensure, I believe, that future public service employees would already be bilingual when they were hired. Do you not think that this is a prerequisite? Do you agree with this principle?

[Vic Toews, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

Let me address some of your initial points. I don't know if you've ever been west of Ottawa, but I come from the province of Manitoba. We have a very proud tradition of French and English there, and we have done some excellent work. When I was in provincial politics, we commissioned an individual by the name of Judge Richard Chartier, and he produced a report called “Above All, Common Sense”, talking about how we can further the francophone language rights in the courts.

I represent a riding that is probably somewhere in the range of 15% to 18% francophone. My colleague from St. Boniface represents a riding with approximately the same number of francophones. There's some disagreement about who has more francophones in their riding, but I can indicate that we provide government services in Manitoba in a way that has developed francophone language rights. I'm very proud of our record.

I can point not only to the justice area, with the courts specifically, but to the policing. We have bilingual areas in my riding out of St-Pierre where the police officers are all bilingual and serve a huge area of my riding bilingually. I was very proud when I was the Minister of Justice, and continuing in my role as a regional minister, to make recommendations and to speak with the Minister of Justice about the appointment of francophone judges. For the first time in the history of Manitoba--under our government--we had three francophone judges on the court of appeal, so that any appeal could be heard in French without translation. Now, unfortunately one of those judges decided--no, no, you've indicated that we--

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

I would like you to answer my question.