Official Languages Committee on May 5th, 2009

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Lise Zarac]

I'm sorry, Mr. Toews. I think this is not new to you. I'm sure it's not new to you. It's a point that's been brought up several times.

[Vic Toews, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

It's certainly news to me in terms of the Liberal Party taking the position that because I only speak one of the official languages I am not competent to act as a--

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Lise Zarac]

It is not directly directed to you; it's directed to the ministry.

I have a point of order. Go ahead, Mr. Lemieux.

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Chair, I would just ask that as chair you run the meeting so that there is respect shown for the witnesses. It is unacceptable that there are personal attacks being levelled against the minister of the government because the opposition wants to make its point. We must treat all our witnesses with respect. If we want our committee to have credibility and to function well, Madam Chair, we must show respect. Madam Chair, it is your responsibility to ask the opposition to show respect. They can ask their questions. They can ask hard questions, but they must show respect.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Lise Zarac]

Thank you, Mr. Lemieux. You've made your point. That is definitely what I want, to keep that respect here.

[Jean-Claude D'Amours, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Madam Chair, I have a point of order.

I have never asked the minister any questions of a personal nature. I asked him questions regarding his responsibility as minister. I asked him to tell me what parts of the Official Languages Act he is responsible for.

This is his responsibility as minister. This is not his personal responsibility, or his personal right to speak one language or another. It is not his responsibility to know what parts of the act he is responsible for as minister.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Lise Zarac]

Thank you, Mr. D'Amours.

That's the point I was trying to say before, that the comments here shouldn't be taken personally. It's just a question of what you represent as a ministry.

[Vic Toews, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

I come here and I'm told by that member and his colleague from the Liberal Party that because I don't speak the other official language, I shouldn't be a minister. I consider that a personal attack.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Lise Zarac]

That's not what I heard.

[Vic Toews, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

Well, that's what I heard. I heard it very clearly, Madam Chair.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Lise Zarac]

That is not what I heard, and that is why I mentioned, Mr. Toews, not to take it personally.

[Vic Toews, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

Well, let's look at the record and see what the record says, Madam Chair.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

Madam Chair, I have a point of order, because I began this round of questions.

I think the minister is trying to play petty politics at the expense of official languages. The questions I initially asked amount to this: if an individual is officially responsible for aspects of official languages, should he or she not, as a minister, speak both languages? Yes or no?

I'm asking the question, but the difference, Madam Chair...

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Lise Zarac]

This is not a point of order, Mr. Rodriguez. Thank you.

We will continue with questions. I would ask all members to show respect, and, Mr. Toews, I would ask that you not take comments as personal attacks.

We will now move to Ms. Guay.

[Monique Guay, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Minister, I don't think these are personal attacks, but rather serious and important questions on official languages.

I simply have a comment to make. As an employer, I would personally feel uncomfortable asking my staff to be bilingual without being so myself, quite simply. That is my own opinion.

Minister, you said in your presentation that employees can generally study the official language of their choice in the course of their duties. You also said that 86% of employees feel free to use the official language of their choice when drafting documents. You say, furthermore, that 90% of employees feel free to use the official language of their choice when communicating with a supervisor.

Minister, is that not a way to discourage individuals within the public service to become bilingual? I'm asking you the question because, although individuals may be able to use their mother tongue, would it not be a way to discourage them from being bilingual and from offering services themselves in both languages? Would this not essentially compel them to transfer requests for services to another individual who speaks the second official language?

It is worrisome to note, in light of your comments, that French, or the second official language, is not really important to you. I would like to hear your comments on this. I'm sincerely concerned.

[Vic Toews, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

Actually, I don't know how you got that impression, and I'm sorry if I gave you that impression. To me, the use of both official languages is very important. The 2005 survey of the public service indicated the will or the ability of the public service, in a very high percentage, to speak the language of choice in the workplace, in speaking with their supervisors and indeed in providing written materials. In my opinion, what that does is ensure that they are encouraged to use their mother tongue, if they so choose.

[Monique Guay, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Minister, I only have five minutes.

We know full well that within the public service individuals have a certain number of years to learn the second language. For some positions, bilingualism is mandatory, but they have five years to become bilingual, and if they're not after five years, they can then request another five years. In the end, they never really become bilingual. I think a major effort has to be made in this regard and that is not currently the case, minister. It isn't happening. Do you agree with me?

[Vic Toews, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

As I understand it, the first time period is two years.

[Monique Guay, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

No, it depends on the position.

[Vic Toews, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

It's two years, I understand. I'm not sure what you're suggesting--that we not give public servants the appropriate period of time?

[Monique Guay, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

No, it isn't that the period of time granted is inappropriate, it is that you should force them to learn the second language as soon as possible. And if people haven't learned the second language, minister, well that's just unfortunate, but then you should find someone else for the position who speaks both official languages, because the position must be bilingual.

I'm going to ask you another question. We are talking about the public service, we're talking about young people, students, who are not bilingual. Over time, we have seen a decrease in the number of bilingual youth to fill positions within the public service. What is being done to increase this number? We know this, we are currently studying bilingualism at the post-secondary level, in our committee. We are seeing an increasing number of young people who are not bilingual. Well, the fact is that we are going to be needing an increasing number of young people within the public service. What will we do then? Are we simply going to recruit anglophones and forget about bilingualism?

[Vic Toews, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

Actually, I think that's not correct. We're seeing—

[Monique Guay, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

There is no increase.

[Vic Toews, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

Well, hold it, let me finish.

As I see it, we are producing more and more bilingual individuals in Canada, who then have—

[Monique Guay, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

No, that is false.