Official Languages Committee on Oct. 29th, 2009

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Good morning, everyone. Welcome to the 37th meeting of the Standing Committee on Official Languages. This morning, pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), we are studying the impacts of the delays in providing funding to recipient organizations from the Department of Canadian Heritage.

It is our pleasure to have the Minister of Canadian Heritage and Official Languages as well as representatives of the department.

In the first hour, the minister will appear, and he is accompanied by Ms. LaRocque, Deputy Minister of Canadian Heritage, and Thomas Scrimger, Assistant Deputy Minister. We also welcome Mr. Lussier, who is a committee regular.

At the end of the first hour, we'll suspend for a few minutes for the time it takes to change witnesses.

Without further ado, I invite you, minister, to make your address. I take the opportunity to welcome you to the Standing Committee on Official Languages.

[James Moore, Conservative, Minister of Canadian Heritage and Official Languages]

Mr. Chair, I thank you for your invitation to speak before this committee.

You, as members of the Committee on Official Languages, and I, as minister responsible for official languages, are committed to protecting and promoting our two official languages. We are working to ensure that the Government of Canada serves our community partners as effectively as possible.

As Minister of Canadian Heritage and Official Languages, I am pleased to underline that we have just celebrated the 40th anniversary of the implementation of the Official Languages Act.

This act gave the French and English languages equal status in the federal public service, requiring the government to better serve Canadians in the official language of their choice.

As you know, Treasury Board's full diligence framework is an important component in ensuring that taxpayers' money is used wisely. As you can imagine, this level of diligence takes time.

We are providing leadership on official languages, and we rely on our valuable partners active within the communities to make our commitments possible.

Although I realize that not everything is to the satisfaction of everyone, I can assure you that, in meeting many groups across the country during my round tables, and especially representatives of the Quebec Community Groups Network and the Fédération des communautés francophones et acadiennes, there is a good working relationship between the government and these groups.

However, I would like to underline that despite this good relationship, there are situations that make the work of the community groups difficult. When I visited the francophone community of Prince Edward Island, I heard their grievances, and I can tell you that their complaints were not ignored. It was the first time that a federal minister of official languages visited this community and I was pleased to see for myself their passion and devotion. I was particularly touched by that.

We have paid particular attention to the communities' concerns about delays in processing applications and the weight of administrative processes. And we are committed to addressing these concerns.

These issues have had repercussions on community organizations in terms of human resources management and access to credit. They have also led to uncertainty in the planning process.

It is our partners who make our two official languages a living reality. We are convinced that, among them, low-risk clients such as some communities with which we have worked for many years should be subject to a less demanding process that would suit them better.

Treasury Board recently approved Official Languages Support Programs procedures. This will allow reductions in payment frequency and in the number of reports to be submitted by recipients to receive funding. We believe that this is a positive step toward lightening the administrative burden of our community partners.

This means that as a result of the actions taken by our government, community groups are now receiving stability and certainty, and they are faced with less red tape in the funding process.

It is now possible within the Official Languages Support Programs to choose to provide a grant, rather than a contribution, if funding for an organization is less than $50,000. Previously, the threshold was $30,000. In receiving a grant rather than a contribution, the organization avoids certain administrative requirements.

Further, I have asked my officials to make other improvements to address the problem. In a few moments they will give you more details, but here is a summary.

We are continuing to encourage our official languages community partners to submit multi-year funding applications. Next year a number of contribution agreements will be in place, which means that the volume of recommendations will be reduced. This will allow better planning by the organizations and will lighten their administrative burden.

In addition, all procedures have been examined to shorten the time needed for processing applications and issuing payments to recipients.

New service standards will be implemented, starting April 1, 2010.

We will be establishing a single deadline for all provinces and territories for 2011-2012.

And the 25% for groups will be distributed earlier, so they should receive their funding by the beginning of April.

This means that the application process from beginning to end will be simplified and streamlined for the recipients.

We are firmly committed to addressing recipients' concerns, effectively and efficiently carrying out programs for Canadians and finding a proper balance between due diligence and administrative burden.

We are already taking steps to address these concerns. I would also like to take this opportunity to remind the committee about some of our achievements that show our commitment to official languages throughout Canada.

The year 2009-10 was a year full of achievements. Our Roadmap for Canada's Linguistic Duality is providing an unprecedented $1.1 billion over five years to the priority sectors of health, justice, immigration, economic development, culture and education.

Many components of the Roadmap have already been announced. Last month, I announced the signing of an education protocol of more than $1 billion over four years between our government and the Council of Ministers of Education, Canada (CMEC). The protocol sets aside funds for teaching in the minority language and second language teaching, as well as national bursary and language monitor programs.

This protocol will enable thousands of students living in minority communities across the country, about 106,000 anglophones in Quebec and 142,000 francophones outside Quebec, to study in the language of their choice, in the school of their choice. These are young anglophones in Quebec City and Saguenay and young francophones in Vancouver and Winnipeg.

Furthermore, within the framework of federal-provincial agreements, our government gives its support to provinces and territories to offer second language teaching programs, including immersion programs.

In September, our government announced a $10 million initiative to increase francophone immigration to New Brunswick in the Atlantic region.

This month marked the launch of the Language Portal of Canada, with access to Termium Plus. The aim of this effective work tool, developed in Canada, is to give all Canadians access to expertise.

We've also launched the Canada School of Public Service's second language pilot project, designed to give Canadian universities greater access to language learning products. That does not include our continued support announced last July in the form of university scholarships in translation, and initiatives for strengthening Canada's language profession sector.

In arts and culture, official language minority communities now have access to works of art and performances in their own language and can raise the profile of their artists thanks to new programs established by our government last spring. Examples include Music Showcase, the national translation program for book publishing, and the cultural development fund. In September, my colleague Shelley Glover announced an investment of more than $2 million in support of this fund.

Our government is proud of what has been done in the past 40 years. I am thinking of the establishment of my province's first French-language high school, École Jules-Verne in Vancouver. You will agree with me when I say that we have come a long way!

From the outset, we have been committed to fully integrating both our official languages in the planning, organization and operation of the 2010 Winter Games.

Our additional investment of $7.7 million, announced in September, is proof of this commitment.

Graham Fraser himself has said, “I'm very pleased to see that government has delivered with regard to the 2010 games. I'm very happy. This is good news.”

The funds will be used for translation and interpretation services, installation of bilingual signs in competition centres, and the inclusion of the French culture and language in the daily medal presentation ceremonies organized by each province and territory.

I also announced that our government is providing $1.7 million for the creation of Place de la francophonie on Granville Island. In this facility, visitors will be able to meet and explore our francophone culture in all its diversity.

Since the start of Canada's Olympic adventure, our government has undertaken to ensure the presence and promotion of French and English during the games. We are continuing in this direction, and we are going to remain vigilant so that the 2010 Winter Games are Canada's games, for all Canadians.

A few weeks ago, I had the honour of co-chairing the 14th Ministerial Conference on the Canadian Francophonie in Vancouver. This conference took place in the Vancouver Convention Centre, which will be the official site of the Main Media Centre for the 2010 Olympic and Paralympic Winter Games.

We had the pleasure of having Jacques Gauthier from VANOC as a guest speaker, and we are now confident that the games will be bilingual. That includes the broadcasting issue that I know has been raised in this committee.

In closing, I must also note the announcement of the establishment of the Language Rights Support Program (LRSP). The University of Ottawa was chosen to manage the program and I have just named the members of the panel of experts required for delivery of the program.

Let me quote Allan Rock on this program: "I would like to thank the government for continuing to lead in the field of language rights in Canada."

This project is entirely consistent with the university mission regarding official languages and ever further crystallizes the institution's leadership role by including a key support program for the language rights of the official language minority communities.

I must not forget to tell you about the Congrès mondial acadien, which took place this past summer, and which I had the privilege to attend. Our government invested $1,750,000 in this grand event, which was a major success. It was a pleasure to share that precious moment with the Acadian communities.

Last, allow me to remind you that we are determined to maintain a positive dialogue with our partners. We will also continue to exercise our leadership in official languages.

I am ready to answer your questions, and my officials will be at your disposal to provide you with further details on the initiatives my department intends to take in this area. Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you, Minister Moore.

We'll start our first round with Mr. Rodriguez.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Good morning, minister, how are you?

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

I'm always well.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

I'm pleased you're here because this is an important subject. However, there are serious problems on the ground. You mentioned the 40th anniversary of the Official Languages Act, the Roadmap for Canada's Linguistic Duality, the Music Showcases Program and the Olympics. We're here to talk about cash disbursement problems. You read some quotations; I'll do so as well.

The President of the Fédération des communautés francophones et acadienne du Canada, Marie-France Kenny, told us this when she testified before the committee:

In total, 72% of respondents had to use a line of credit or a loan, and, since April, at least 14 of these organizations incurred $500 in interest on those lines of credit. We're talking about at least $7,000 going to banks and not to developing services in French for our communities.

She also said this:

I am also thinking about the long-term impact on human resources. In some cases, employees had to use their personal credit cards to pay for expenditures or give up their salary or their expense account. Furthermore, 37.5% of respondents were unable to renew an employee's contract, while 19% said that they had to let permanent staff go.

So there's a structural problem.

I'm also interested in what you have to say about everything else, but what are you going to change in this regard?

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

We're going to change a number of things, as I said in my speech. It's because of these experiences and because of the frustration, which is real, that we've made decisions designed to change the situation on the ground. This is my first year as Minister of Canadian Heritage and Official Languages. I've taken part in round tables across Canada. I've checked with a number of organizations operating in the field, and a number of them have talked to you about existing problems regarding the manner in which they receive grants. We're going to change the situation.

We've emphasized a number of things that we're going to change. If what we've changed wasn't clear in my speech, the deputy minister can explain it to you in detail. However, if you're not interested in that—

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

On the contrary, I'm very interested. That's why I'm here and I hope the same is true for you.

I've toured across Canada and met with organizations virtually everywhere. On my last trip to Newfoundland and Labrador, for example, the director general of the Fédération des francophones de Terre-Neuve et du Labrador told me that he was the only employee and that, as he wasn't receiving any money, he would have to lay himself off the next week. That's a flagrant problem. You and I can talk about beautiful showcases and nice buildings or a long time, but these people have a serious problem on the ground; there are enormous delays.

What happens between the moment the organizations submit their projects in November, the deadline, and the moment they receive money? What happens during all those months?

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

My deputy minister can answer you in detail concerning the process and the changes we are making. On my visits across the country, we've spoken with the communities on the ground and we've listened to their concerns. We've made some changes, and I'm here to talk about them. I agree with them that this is unacceptable and I want to see changes. I was appointed Minister of Official Languages 10 months ago, and the changes will be made.

[Judith LaRocque, Deputy Minister, Department of Canadian Heritage]

Thank you, Mr. Minister.

Hubert can also talk to you in detail about the procedures regarding grants and contributions.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

We don't have a lot of time. Perhaps you could tell us about the eternity that elapses between the filing of the application and receipt of the money.

[Judith LaRocque]

We can answer you in detail. The answer to the question lies in the multi-year agreements. Those agreements will permit stable planning and everything else. The unusual problem this year is that we had to renew the programs. The Treasury Board doesn't allow us to enter into multi-year agreements when we're renewing the programs. That's understandable because we don't know whether the programs will be renewed or not.

This year, the situation was completely different from that of other years. We really like the multi-year agreements, we encourage them, and they cost taxpayers less money; this is good planning. However, in the year when we renew programs, the Treasury Board does not allow us to enter into multi-year agreements. That has caused a lot of problems on the ground; I'm entirely aware of that. We weren't even allowed to send out the 25% we usually send out on April 1.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

From what we've been told, the 25% arrives in June.

[Judith LaRocque]

The 25% usually arrives in early April.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

We've been told it arrives in June, three months late.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you, Mr. Rodriguez.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

We've been told there have been changes, but that the situation is worse because a lot more projects are going up to the minister's office.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

We'll come back to that, Mr. Rodriguez.

[Judith LaRocque]

In previous years, I signed the first 25% instalment in early March so that it could be sent out on April 1. Of course, that's not what happened this year because we were not allowed to do so. We asked Treasury Board to renew our programs.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Rodriguez.

Mr. Nadeau.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Good morning to you all.

I'll speak to you, minister. We'll meet with the officials, the people who work in the machinery of government, in the second part.

I want to make you aware of the situation. Let's just say it's not good. On the weekend, with my colleague Mr. Godin, I attended the general meeting of the Fédération des francophones de Terre-Neuve et du Labrador and other organizations such as the newspaper, Le Gaboteur, and the parents association, which were also holding a meeting in Labrador City.

The youth association was to receive $86,000 on April 1 for the current year. However, that money has not yet arrived. It has been granted, but it hasn't yet arrived. That's a problem.

You'll tell me that's just one example, but Cyrilda Poirier, who is director general of the federation, was forced at one point to use her credit card to pay employees because the money had been promised but had not yet arrived. You can understand the problem. These are the people on the ground. They're not doing this to cause problems, but you have to know this because these situations have been going on for a long time.

I don't want to look at the political stripe or the colour of the tie of the politician opposite me. When I was at the Fédération des francophones de Saskatoon, we had this problem as well. At the time, it was even more difficult because the Liberal government wanted to cut our funding by 53% in order to reduce the deficit. Ultimately, the cut was 37%. We had this heavy weight on our shoulders, but, in addition, the promised funding didn't come.

I would like to hear what you have to say about the following. We're talking here about the minority social fabric. Whether in Quebec or in the rest of Canada, these programs directly affect the community. If there was a delegation of signing authority—I don't know what you call that in legal terms—as a result of which the number of signatures that you have to put on a sheet of paper is shared by a larger number of individuals... I'm not saying there wouldn't be accountability; I'm not talking about a free-for-all. But if the work was done in the regions, since you have officers in the regions, or in Ottawa, for the so-called national agencies, do you think that lightening the load in this way would be desirable? We think that approximately 70% of the agreements are for less than $1 million. It seems to me, in the circumstances, that that would be a possible solution.

I would like to hear what you have to say on that.

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

That's not a bad suggestion at all. I'm talking to the organizations as well, the one in Newfoundland and those in the other regions. I spoke with them when I did my tour and I went to visit them and heard their concerns and frustrations at that time.

When we talk about very small organizations, the amounts are $10,000 or $15,000. You have to do a lot of work simply to keep alive a small organization whose purpose is to help francophones in a very small community. And the services that are created to help Canadians are very important; I understand that.

I did my tour, we listened to the concerns, like those you have here in the committee, and we made a number of changes. I completely agree with the idea of eliminating administrative barriers and the idea of having people in the regions who can say yes or no to investments more quickly.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

You agree, but is there any movement toward that situation? Are you, as minister or as a member of the federal Cabinet, where decisions are made, actually considering lightening this burden? When do you think that will be possible?

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

A number of things that I have spoken about here, such as the multi-year agreements and the 25%, will arrive sooner next year, starting on April 1, etc.

I want to improve the situation significantly, but there are also standards that must be met as well as Treasury Board responsibilities.

Tom, I don't know whether you want to talk about that.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

We'll hear from him later.